Honda to close UK car plant in 2022, risking 3,500 jobs

J_Nostin

fatbeetle wrote: »

But the remainers, whose sole purpose here is to put down the UK, will not see this.

That's why I started posting. I read some of these Brexit threads and I was gobsmacked at how even when shown irrefutable evidence some remainers insist on denying anything which isn't pro-EU and try to put down the UK at any opportunity. I had to conclude that at least some are here purely to create friction.

These same people say nothing about the decline of so much traditional industry since our joining the then Common Market. Our clothing, hosiery and fabric manufacturing industries; gone. Our mining, steel, homegrown automotive and aerospace industries decimated. Our world-leading nuclear research, world-leading railway industries, and world-leading shipbuilding industries all gone too.

Not the fault of the EU. But certainly not helped by them, since the EU retains ALL of these industries somewhere within it's member countries - it's only Britain that they seem to have tried to strip bare.
None of this has worked in reducing Britain to a vassal state and neither will any consequences of Brexit,.

andrewf75

J_Nostin wrote: »

That's why I started posting. I read some of these Brexit threads and I was gobsmacked at how even when shown irrefutable evidence some remainers insist on denying anything which isn't pro-EU and try to put down the UK at any opportunity. I had to conclude that at least some are here purely to create friction.

and are you equally gobsmacked when you read how some leavers are in complete denial of reality? Or don't you mind them because they're on your side?

Of course some are just out to create friction, but that goes for both sides and by being so one sided you're doing that as well.

The sad fact is most people are completely tribal about this and it doesn't matter what idiocy someone comes out with, people are OK with it as long as its from their side.

mayonnaise

This Leave.EU advert didn't age very well....

Arklight

J_Nostin wrote: »

That's why I started posting. I read some of these Brexit threads and I was gobsmacked at how even when shown irrefutable evidence some remainers insist on denying anything which isn't pro-EU and try to put down the UK at any opportunity. I had to conclude that at least some are here purely to create friction.

These same people say nothing about the decline of so much traditional industry since our joining the then Common Market. Our clothing, hosiery and fabric manufacturing industries; gone. Our mining, steel, homegrown automotive and aerospace industries decimated. Our world-leading nuclear research, world-leading railway industries, and world-leading shipbuilding industries all gone too.

Not the fault of the EU. But certainly not helped by them, since the EU retains ALL of these industries somewhere within it's member countries - it's only Britain that they seem to have tried to strip bare.
None of this has worked in reducing Britain to a vassal state and neither will any consequences of Brexit,.

Well stop voting Tory then.

The state of the UK today is exactly what you voted for and what you voted for is exactly what you have got.

If you need to call an ambulance and have to wait for 4 hours for it to arrive, or you drive over a pothole that takes out your car and you need to call a recovery vehicle, or you find you have to call the police and they'll schedule a PCSO visit for Wednesday week, you can use the time to reflect on that, too.

movilogo

The state of the UK today is exactly what you voted for and what you voted for is exactly what you have got.

You are right, but it is not Labour vs Tory thing. The Labour govt opened the floodgate on immigration (both EU and non-EU) the effects of which biting today and resulted in Brexit.

The strong power of Pound drove manufacturing away from UK and we became a service based economy. We kept our competitive edge by importing lower paid workers from other countries so that we can enjoy lazy lives ourselves.

These lazy culture have been kept alive by a generous benefits system (which Labour advocates).

The Tories want to sell everything to highest bidder and measure everything based on how much profit coming to their pockets. So, essential services like railways got privatized. They are now aiming to privatize NHS.

Both Labour & Tories are way past their sell by dates.

We can argue forever whether Brexit is good or bad without reaching conclusion but there is no denying that Brexit is driving some changes which was unimaginable earlier.

The reason for all these doom & gloom news is because if there is no change for a very long time, any change (even if small) is perceived as huge change.

andrewf75

movilogo wrote: »

You are right, but it is not Labour vs Tory thing. The Labour govt opened the floodgate on immigration (both EU and non-EU) the effects of which biting today and resulted in Brexit.

The strong power of Pound drove manufacturing away from UK and we became a service based economy. We kept our competitive edge by importing lower paid workers from other countries so that we can enjoy lazy lives ourselves.

These lazy culture have been kept alive by a generous benefits system (which Labour advocates).

The Tories want to sell everything to highest bidder and measure everything based on how much profit coming to their pockets. So, essential services like railways got privatized. They are now aiming to privatize NHS.

Both Labour & Tories are way past their sell by dates.

We can argue forever whether Brexit is good or bad without reaching conclusion but there is no denying that Brexit is driving some changes which was unimaginable earlier.

The reason for all these doom & gloom news is because if there is no change for a very long time, any change (even if small) is perceived as huge change.

Thats a good summary and while we usually disagree, I can't argue with any of that

Arklight

movilogo wrote: »

You are right, but it is not Labour vs Tory thing. The Labour govt opened the floodgate on immigration (both EU and non-EU) the effects of which biting today and resulted in Brexit.

The strong power of Pound drove manufacturing away from UK and we became a service based economy. We kept our competitive edge by importing lower paid workers from other countries so that we can enjoy lazy lives ourselves.

These lazy culture have been kept alive by a generous benefits system (which Labour advocates).

The Tories want to sell everything to highest bidder and measure everything based on how much profit coming to their pockets. So, essential services like railways got privatized. They are now aiming to privatize NHS.

Both Labour & Tories are way past their sell by dates.

We can argue forever whether Brexit is good or bad without reaching conclusion but there is no denying that Brexit is driving some changes which was unimaginable earlier.

The reason for all these doom & gloom news is because if there is no change for a very long time, any change (even if small) is perceived as huge change.

We lost manufacturing because Thatcher closed half of it down then sold the rest of it off in an ideological war against the unions.

I presume you are writing from the South, not Wales or the North where their industries were decimated overnight because the Tories wouldn't tolerate the unions and they surmised the best way to get rid of unionised political representation is to make sure their members are jobless.

Many of those areas have never recovered. There is a reason why you can talk to people in the North or ex Welsh mining towns who viscerally despise the Tory party even now.

Thrugelmir

movilogo wrote: »

The strong power of Pound drove manufacturing away from UK and we became a service based economy. We kept our competitive edge by importing lower paid workers from other countries so that we can enjoy lazy lives ourselves.

You omitted to cite the emergence of China in the early 90's from the shadows. A game changer. Subsequently India too. At a stroke over a billion people were added to the global labour market.

The EU as a whole is now service based. Competing with Asia is over. Even China is struggling to compete with the lower wage economies of Thailand and Vietnam (for example).

People can logon to there phones. See what lifestyle you enjoy. Then say "I want that too".

phillw

Arklight wrote: »

I presume you are writing from the South, not Wales or the North where their industries were decimated overnight because the Tories wouldn't tolerate the unions and they surmised the best way to get rid of unionised political representation is to make sure their members are jobless.

I don't believe they thought it was the best way, but the unions preyed upon the rest of the country and something needed to be done. Inflation was just insane because each union with leverage was lined up to ask for more money, which drove inflation, which meant the next union wanted even more. The unions didn't back down and the government won, but I don't think it was the governments preferred solution.

I think unions can work effectively, but not when you have militant union leaders brainwashing their members. As soon as the us and them mentality comes in then you've lost (like with leavers and the EU). The union leaders always come out of it quite well off, the members not so much.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The EU as a whole is now service based. Competing with Asia is over. Even China is struggling to compete with the lower wage economies of Thailand and Vietnam (for example).

People can logon to there phones. See what lifestyle you enjoy. Then say "I want that too".

And we're pursuing a plan that involves taking us completely out of the service market and competing purely on goods.

cybermum

spadoosh wrote: »

That fits in line with every worst case scenario prediction... a 10% increase in costs. (vs a 10% hit on GDP).

Lets assume for a second that somehow this incompetent government do get a trade deal. Bear in mind no trade deals can be agreed until we have left the EU. Were arguing about the withdrawal agreement at the moment. Which means we where always going to go to WTO rules. ONce that happened its expected everyone will sit down and sort otu a trade deal. SO the 10% increase in costs is reasonably expected to last a short period of time as a trade deal would be arranged (eventually).

Now honda have a choice. They know (and with help and direction from japanese government) that they need to invest heavily in the future changes coming to the motor industry. They know they ahve a trade deal with the EU which means they can sell cars without any tariffs to the EU. Bear in mind the foundations for this arrangement where set in 2013, long before brexit was anything of a reality. So the choice was chuck a load of money at another country and hope to get a return. Or chuck a load of money at japan and hope to get a return. Now you know when youre chucking it at random country a its not benefititing your school friends. When you send it back home it does. Where do you send the money? Especially when your mate (the government) who chucked some money at you to help break in to other markets and ensured benefit to you in negotiations is maybe having a word in your ear about helping out the domestice market?

The Eu where happy to negotiate this arrangement. It was inevitable that there would be job losses as a result of this. So were paying the EU to make our decision for us on trade and the result is were losing manufacturing jobs. Who needs enemies ay?


The really funny thing is this agreement according to the EU is about two massive economies rejecting the idea of protectionism. Meanwhile japan is clawing back a load of jobs, savings itself a load of money and has got access to a market of 500 million customers all for the expense of allowing french corn int he country. And we really want them in charge of our trade deals? Theyre just sooo bad at them.

Completely agree.