Honda to close UK car plant in 2022, risking 3,500 jobs

spadoosh

phillw wrote: »

It's hard to convince the people when you're up against those who have a vested interest in deceiving the people.

Democracy isn't supposed to be that those who tell the most convincing lie get to do what they want.

Forgive me, the governments in my adult life have been Blair, Brown Cameron and May. All of which have lied or giving the benefit of the doubt massively under delivered their promises. Thats the only 'democracy' i know.

I voted to leave the EU because i believe them to be exactly the same as our politicians and that is largely ineffective. I dont like big government, i think the waste is vast and efficiency is low. I believe a governments role is to protect national security which means limiting their remit to protect law, order and military defence. Anything beyond that is personal responsibility.

What lies did i believe? Whats undemocratic about the way i voted?

You cant convince me because we have fundamental differences in our beliefs. I dont believe a government should tell me how to live, its impossible for me to think they know better. I dont believe a government should tell me right and wrong because well, they do a lot of really wrong stuff. And i dont think government and politics should in any way try to influence morality given every single person differs ever so slightly to everyone else.

No lies involved in my decision. Formulated it all by myself. The really big problem for you is i just wont believe you, it sounds like youve got vested interests

stator

Remember Swindon has over 100,000 people.
3,000+ people unemployed is a shame for them, but irrelevant to the UK economy and will hardly have any significant effect on Swindon.


A factory closing is national headline news. A factory opening is local news.
UK employment is at an all time high.

swindiff

I live just a few miles from the Honda plant and have many friends that work there. It is very sad news for them and their families and Swindon as a whole, but it is not the "end of Swindon" as being portrayed by some media outlets. Swindon is fortunate in that it has low levels of unemployment and there is work out there for anyone who is prepared to do it.

Herzlos

Work for all 3000+?


3500 jobs in the factory certainly won't turn Swindon into a ghost town, but it's going to have lots of knock-on issues - there's probably a lot of indirect jobs - sandwich shops, office suppliers, agency cleaners, couriers, and so on that will struggle too. You've then suddenly got 3500+ people hitting the job market with no new jobs appearing, some will likely have to sell up and move elsewhere, most will cut spending in the local economy to a minimum.


In the bigger UK wide picture it's even less relevant, but without any replacement jobs it's not a good thing especially when the same thing seems to be happening across the country.
How many jobs is Brexit costing? How many jobs is Brexit generating?

spadoosh wrote: »

You had nigel farage and bojo on the other side and you still couldnt convince people. The only thing i can say to that is your deficiencies are beyond extreme.

You can't blame remainers for this mess - we told you very clearly that it was a bad idea. It's hard to compete with Farage and Bojo since they told everyone what they wanted with some obvious lies. They should be held to account, but it's not hard to see why people believed their claims.

spadoosh

Herzlos wrote: »

You can't blame remainers for this mess - we told you very clearly that it was a bad idea. It's hard to compete with Farage and Bojo since they told everyone what they wanted with some obvious lies. They should be held to account, but it's not hard to see why people believed their claims.

Why not, if you had all voted leave we wouldnt be in this mess?!

For what its worth i predicted this mess. If im really honest i was hoping for it.

I wanted the people of the UK to be slapped senseless in to realising what is happening in our parliament. I think its fair to say most people have been slapped senseless by brexit.

You are not going to hold me responsible for the actions of our parliament because i wanted greater personal responsibility. What we are seeing is exactly the reason i voted to leave. We are led by utter muppets (UK.gov and EU.gov) whos power is far overstretched at massive detriment to their people.

Of course, calling it out was always going to be messy. No one likes being told they are utterly incompetent and out of touch. We just need to let them expose themselves, remember them and ensure they never see office again. We can progress. There was no chance of that whilst we have parliamentarians who have no interest in representing those who voted for them.

movilogo

EU made a deal with Japan which removes tariff from Japanese imports to EU.

This will make selling German cars to Japan easier.

However, it has also led to UK based Japanese car manufacturing bases being repatriated to Japan.

So, whose interest EU is looking after?

Herzlos

Japan has arranged tariff free trade with the EU (pushed by the UK), and the UK is looking like introducing 10% tariffs to the EU. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out the consequences.


Would Honda have left the UK if it was still going to have 0% tariffs to the UK? It's not as likely since it's a lot of expense for minimal gain. They may have chosen to keep Swindon running and opened a new plant in Japan when it was needed.


Honda has been making loud noises about how leaving the customs union kills their business model dead (because they get literally millions of parts under JIT which isn't possible with customs delays), and now that we're leaving they've had to follow through.

It's actually a good thing for Brexiteers - if we've lost Honda anyway, then there's no point in cancelling Brexit to keep them.

spadoosh wrote: »

Why not, if you had all voted leave we wouldnt be in this mess?!

We'd be in exactly the same mess if it was 100% leave - the problem is that no-one knows what leave means. All it'd mean is that there'd be no talk of withdrawing A50.

For what its worth i predicted this mess. If im really honest i was hoping for it.

Lots of people predicted this mess, but people were "sick of experts". I felt bad about the mess for a while but I now reckon the only way to solve it is to let is go wrong, learn some lessons and then move on to fix it and recover what we can.

I wanted the people of the UK to be slapped senseless in to realising what is happening in our parliament. I think its fair to say most people have been slapped senseless by brexit.

You are not going to hold me responsible for the actions of our parliament because i wanted greater personal responsibility. What we are seeing is exactly the reason i voted to leave. We are led by utter muppets (UK.gov and EU.gov) whos power is far overstretched at massive detriment to their people.

Of course, calling it out was always going to be messy. No one likes being told they are utterly incompetent and out of touch. We just need to let them expose themselves, remember them and ensure they never see office again. We can progress. There was no chance of that whilst we have parliamentarians who have no interest in representing those who voted for them.

Agreed. It was always an impossible argument for Remain, because too many people want to believe they can get a unicorn.

movilogo

the problem is that no-one knows what leave means

That's what Remainers try to make us believe because they want to stay in EU.

Cameron said leave means pulling out of Single Market.

https://www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-bbc-andrew-marr-ill-pull-uk-out-of-the-single-market-after-brexit-eu-referendum-vote-june-23-consequences-news/

Osborne said same thing.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-osborne/britains-osborne-turns-fire-on-out-plan-to-leave-eu-single-market-idUKKCN0Y713H

So if Prime Minister and Chancellor both agree on what leaving EU means, surely there is no futher argument on what leave means?

andrewf75

movilogo wrote: »

So, whose interest EU is looking after?

anyone who trades between EU and Japan - not just German car manufacturers

This all just shows the stupidity of the UK selling off its own industries and instead becoming reliant on foreign business.

andrewf75

movilogo wrote: »

That's what Remainers try to make us believe because they want to stay in EU.

Cameron said leave means pulling out of Single Market.

https://www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-bbc-andrew-marr-ill-pull-uk-out-of-the-single-market-after-brexit-eu-referendum-vote-june-23-consequences-news/

Osborne said same thing.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-osborne/britains-osborne-turns-fire-on-out-plan-to-leave-eu-single-market-idUKKCN0Y713H

So if Prime Minister and Chancellor both agree on what leaving EU means, surely there is no futher argument on what leave means?

In all of the Brexit madness this is number one for me - the warnings of the remain campaign being held up as the definition of what leave means. You couldn't make it up....