Plasterer asked for money for materials up front for small job tomorrow

snowcat75

Risteard wrote: »

Why do you believe that decent workmen should provide interest-free loans?

That's how it works though in pretty much every other aspect of business.

I'm just about (today) finish a job started in December, 4 men, numerous machinery, lots of paperwork, insurance, diesel, wages without seeing a penny.... and I wont until the job is 100% completed and signed... This will be paid in 28 days of hopefully today. So around 4 months I provide such a loan. 28 day payments are good, work for the big boys like bam and I'm often into 3 month settlements.

If someone with tuppence happen overheads cant manage cashflow then quite frankly they shouldn't be in business.

Dean000000

snowcat75 wrote: »

That's how it works though in pretty much every other aspect of business.

I'm just about (today) finish a job started in December, 4 men, numerous machinery, lots of paperwork, insurance, diesel, wages without seeing a penny.... and I wont until the job is 100% completed and signed... This will be paid in 28 days of hopefully today. So around 4 months I provide such a loan. 28 day payments are good, work for the big boys like bam and I'm often into 3 month settlements.

If someone with tuppence happen overheads cant manage cashflow then quite frankly they shouldn't be in business.

That’s very noble of you, but those are not terms that I, or many others would trade on.

You realise companies like bam get monthly valuations, and would have been paid once or twice since you started? Perhaps even a third before you get paid.

Your nobility has enabled a multi billion pound company to get you to bankroll their business.

Justsayin

Doozergirl

snowcat75 wrote: »

That's how it works though in pretty much every other aspect of business.

I'm just about (today) finish a job started in December, 4 men, numerous machinery, lots of paperwork, insurance, diesel, wages without seeing a penny.... and I wont until the job is 100% completed and signed... This will be paid in 28 days of hopefully today. So around 4 months I provide such a loan. 28 day payments are good, work for the big boys like bam and I'm often into 3 month settlements.

If someone with tuppence happen overheads cant manage cashflow then quite frankly they shouldn't be in business.

Yours is an example of big business using you to manage their cashflow! Carillion, anyone?

As a school governor, I see exactly what BAM get paid and when. The school isn't afforded the same terms that BAM afford themselves. There is no reasonable answer to being unable to pay bills promptly. That isn't managing cashflow.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Doozergirl wrote: »

Yours is an example of big business using you to manage their cashflow! Carillion, anyone?

Surely it's an example of supply and demand, if the other poster pushed for better terms there would likely be several other contractors lined up who would agree to the big companies terms instead.

Same with the OP, they didn't want to pay up front so the plaster says good luck and find someone else but they can only do this because they have other jobs lined up.

For a big job I don't mind to pay for materials as they land on site but some bloke with a van who wants 200 quid for a couple of bags of plaster and a few boards? Who says he'll turn up or do a good job?

If OP has been given a written contract stating 40% up front it's a bit different but it doesn't sound that way.

GreenQueen

Risteard wrote: »

That's not in any way relevant to ensuring the money will be there to pay for the materials.

I can understand needing money upfront if you are buying unusual or very expensive materials, but for a plasterer, plasterboard and a bag of plaster are always going to be useable with another customer - he may even have them lying around, having bought in quantity.

Doozergirl

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Surely it's an example of supply and demand, if the other poster pushed for better terms there would likely be several other contractors lined up who would agree to the big companies terms instead.

Same with the OP, they didn't want to pay up front so the plaster says good luck and find someone else but they can only do this because they have other jobs lined up.

For a big job I don't mind to pay for materials as they land on site but some bloke with a van who wants 200 quid for a couple of bags of plaster and a few boards? Who says he'll turn up or do a good job?

If OP has been given a written contract stating 40% up front it's a bit different but it doesn't sound that way.

I didn't say it was acceptable. I didn't talk about the plaster. His materials are pennies, the OP a week ago.

Both situations are unacceptable.

The Carillion and BAM situations are not supply and demand. It is bullying by large corporations who corner massive swathes of the market by being granted vast contracts by the government and force many small subcontractors into hardship and, in the case of Carillion, failure. It's gross incompetence at best.

EachPenny

GreenQueen wrote: »

I can understand needing money upfront if you are buying unusual or very expensive materials, but for a plasterer, plasterboard and a bag of plaster are always going to be useable with another customer - he may even have them lying around, having bought in quantity.

Not when they are already attached to the first customer's wall.

The issue with the OP's intended plasterer is almost certainly one of wanting to avoid non-payment rather than cashflow problems.

For a small job being carried out for a stranger there is really no excuse these days for expecting 28 day payment terms. It isn't unreasonable for the tradesman to ask for some money on arrival at the site, with the remainder being paid on completion.

Mistral001

EachPenny wrote: »

Not when they are already attached to the first customer's wall.

The issue with the OP's intended plasterer is almost certainly one of wanting to avoid non-payment rather than cashflow problems.

For a small job being carried out for a stranger there is really no excuse these days for expecting 28 day payment terms. It isn't unreasonable for the tradesman to ask for some money on arrival at the site, with the remainder being paid on completion.

This is a good point. It is largely unreported how many non-paying customers there are in the building industry. You would think that if a builder did some work in someone's house they would get their money, but it could be a buy to let property and the landlord lives abroad, or the customer delays payment and then moves house or makes themselves bankrupt.

bertiewhite

I've never heard of a mechanic asking for money for car parts upfront.

p00hsticks

bertiewhite wrote: »

I've never heard of a mechanic asking for money for car parts upfront.

A rather different scenario, as they have some form of security in the shape of the customers car until the bill gets paid.