Didn't receive initial fine until court papers arrived

FuzzyDuck1

Thank you, i thought that was what would come back from that question. The only thing that made me think it may not fall under relevant land was that the land was "Provided" by a local authority when it became freeholder? In other words the council has Provided land to which it is freeholder under lease to the leaseholder.

Coupon-mad

Yes that's the only arguable point on that front.

But I can't see a Judge saying a PPC in possession, who already had leasehold title before the Council rocked up, are suddenly supposed to bow to statutory control rather than contractual enforcement.

FuzzyDuck1

I thought legislation overruled contracts?
The leasehold still states previous land owners would this still be the case when the lands sold?

Coupon-mad

From the links you and the other poster gave, it seem the new freeholders (Council) bought the land knowing NCP had leasehold title and so there will be documents updating that ownership. Whether they are lodged at Land Registry yet might be due to the solicitors.

I think this is the wrong focus for your case.

NCP have title which means any question of landowner authority has no legs.

FuzzyDuck1

Thank you. I was focusing on this while I am waiting for further instruction from the court after sending my amended defence, as keeper is not liable for contraventions on public land so trying to gather evidence to back up my defence on this point.

FuzzyDuck1

One more thing, the photos BW legal sent me of the car parks terms and conditions state that it is a private car park managed by NCP. Would this not be correct as it isn't private land? Or due to the fact they are leasehold title owners, means that it would still be classed as private land?
The photographs provided (dated 02/07/18) show an Arial view being of a gravel car park. The other photographs show it as being tarmac surface with clear bay spaces. The contravention date was 9 days later than the date on the photographs they sent...

Coupon-mad

Was that before or after the Council purchased it?

FuzzyDuck1

After, the council purchased it in June 2018.

Coupon-mad

Whilst it shouldn't be called private land, once Council owned, this was so soon after the ownership changed hands I think this is still the wrong focus.

By all means mention the Council ownership in your Witness Statement later on, and suggest that the land was, from June 2018, not 'private land/relevant land' as it can be argued.

Not saying it can't be included, just maybe not something that would have as much clout if NCP were not landowers too.

FuzzyDuck1

I've just been to the car park and the signiz still in situ stating "private" land. Some 8 months after the council purchased the property.

I will as advised put the info you recommend into my witness statement once I'm asked to write one.

Thank you again for all of your advice, much appreciated