PCN due to failed parking App

Lauren73

Hi
Whilst I've spent some time reading through the Newbie thread and a lot of posts I can't find one exactly like this so here's the details of the PCN I received and how it came about. Can you let me know if my appeal structure is ok?

PCN from CP Plus arrived today (as expected) - Expected because my husband who was driver of my car on 29/Jan/2019 tried in vain for several days to pay the car parking fee but could not. Here's what happened.

My husband has a 3-month parking season ticket at our local train station purchased on 02/Jan/2019 for £445.00. He paid for this as he always does using the 'Glide' parking app on his phone (operated by New Park Security Ltd). His credit card details are registered on the app and it is quick and easy to pay with.
The station car park now uses automatic number plate recognition since CP Plus took over it last year, replacing paper tickets (which he could have used for any car before, but with ANPR this is no longer possible).
On 29/Jan his car had to go into a garage for a small repair so he used my car to go to the station and arrived at 08:00 according to the PCN.
He returned and left the car park at 20:02 that evening.
After getting home he opened the Glide phone app and tried to pay for the days parking in my car. However he was unable to do so. The credit card registered on the app had gone. He tried to add a new card to the app but this failed with an error message. he tried to register another card but this failed too.
That night he emailed the support email address for Glide hoping they would clear up the problem and let him pay for parking some other way (he did not know the car park was actually operated by CP Plus at this point - assuming Glide/New Park Security were in charge).

So the next day he went to work using his own car, ran to catch his train, got to work and a few times throughout the day tried to register a card and pay on the app again. To no avail - mor error messages. He took screenshots of a couple of the error messages on his phone (and still has them).
On returning to the station that night he tried this time to pay at the parking payment booth/machine in the car park. He entered the (my) registration and it was not recognised. The machine allowed manual entry of the time of entry (but not time of exit) so it assumed he was trying to pay for parking from the previous morning until that point = 2 days parking = £30 (instead of £15 for the one day). He wouldn't pay that. We assume that the machines allow 24 hours from exit to pay? He was later that day so exceeded the 24 hours.

Again that night he emailed Glide again to complain about their lack of reply. Here is that email message:
---
Sent 30 January 2019 20:57
To glide at newparksolutions dot com
Subject RE Won’t let me pay on app
Importance: High
A day later and I still have not been able to pay for this parking AND HAVE HAD NO RESPONSE FROM YOU AT ALL.
Today I tried to load another credit and debit card onto the Glide app. Again it was refused (note: there is nothing wrong with my cards). I have screenshots of the error messages.
So I tried to find your website to see if there was an on-line place to pay - and no there is not.
So I went on foot to pay at the machine at xxxx station but the machine did not recognise the number plate xxxxxxx. Instead I tried to enter the date+entry/exit times manually but the machine only takes the entry time and charges from then. So in this case it wanted 2 days payment = £30 which I'm not paying.
I looked around for Glide posters with a phone number I could call - there are none.
I looked on-line for a support phone number for Glide. There is none.
There are no support phone numbers on your app, only this email address which you do not respond to.
Now back in the app my parking charge has disappeared. I have no way to pay it.

I have tried all sorts of ways to pay this parking fee to no avail. You offer no support at all.
I suggest you contact me to arrange payment, or at least contact me....
---

There was no further response to this until 04/Feb when he got this email from New Park Solutions:
---
On 4 Feb 2019, at 13:35, glide at newparksolutions dot com wrote:
Hi xxx,
Apologise for the late reply.
We have now investigated this issue and we believe this should now be working.
Please could you retry to add your card to the app.
Let us know how you get on.
Kind regards,
The Glide Team DSA
---

However when trying to look for payment on the app the reg/date/time was not there so he couldn't use it. He replied:
---
Sent: 04 February 2019 15:32
To: glide at newparksolutions dot com
I cannot make payment and add my card because the payment for parking on 29-Jan using vehicle xxxxxx is no longer showing on the app.
So please tell me how to pay for that?
"""

Then finally today 11/Jan he received the latest reply:
"""
From: glide at newparksolutions dot com
Sent: 11 February 2019 11:09
Hi xxx
We have forwarded your query onto CP Plus, as they are the management company for xxxxx [station] parking.
Glide only provides a method of payment for fee’s owed on Peterborough’s parking system, we have no control over their operation.

Please feel free to contact CP Plus via their details below:
Email: info at cp-plus dot co.uk
Phone: 020 7431 4001
"""

This was the first time we realised that CP Plus was the operator, not Glide/New Park Security. this evening hubby did notice CP Plus signs high up on some lamposts in the car park but couldn't really read them in the dark.

So I'm about to compose an appeal based on some other posts tweaked with relevance to our own situation.
Is there anything I should omit or keep in the appeal from the above?
The thing is hubby is willing to pay the £15 for that day. God know's he's tried! But as is evident from the Glide response there was a problem with their app, which they apparently fixed, but too late for us to pay on time.
Would CP Plus wriggle around this fact somehow?

Clearly I am the registered keeper, but was not driving the car that day. Should I mention my hubby was driving at all? Or just say 'the driver...' did this and emailed that...and wasn't able to pay...thought New Park Security were the operators...got no response...didn't know CP Plus were the operators until 11/Feb...

Best regards
L

KeithP

Lauren73 wrote: »

Damn site wont let me post the rest of my message!

Then it blocks my IP :mad:

Because you are copying swathes of formatted text from MSWord.

Coupon-mad

PCN from CP Plus arrived today

Just use the usual blue template appeal and they will go away (no need to tweak, except I would state a that you were NOT the driver, and of course not say who was!).

Lauren73

Thanks very much. So should I just post this on their appeal web page?

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,



Thing is to me that doesn't address the problems my hubby had with the Glide app and we were thinking we actually have a strong case by providing Glide (New Park Solutions) response stating that the app was faulty and they fixed it...after which time it was too late to make a payment.
I mean they have provided photos, and it's not a question of overstaying the time period by x minutes...maybe I'm being whimsical and trying to be too honest?
But if the above template is all we need I guess I'll just send that in.

Coupon-mad

Just use the template v CP Plus, but I did say add that you were not the driver.

It will either be cancelled or you will get a POPLA code, where you can go to town about the app evidence to POPLA!

Fruitcake

The advice in the NEWBIES is not to look for a match between your case and what's in the template appeal.

Your case is no different than nearly every one we get a hundred times a day. The Keeper has received a PCN and they need to appeal it. That's all there is to it.

So, just send the appeal template in blue you will find in the NEWBIES from The Keeper, adding a one liner that the keeper was not the driver.

thingamaBob

I'm not a parking expert but was wondering:-

I gather this is about Peterborough station car park which is subject to Byelaws.
Has the OP got a Penalty Charge Notice rather than a Parking Charge Notice?
Is the thread HERE on ppp relevant?

If it is Peterborough and the blue template is used, it may be prudent to omit "and my MP" from the first paragraph as she currently has her own motoring problems.

Lauren73

Hi yes it says Penalty Charge Notice (not parking charge notice).
Should that change my response? Is the text I posted above the 'blue template'? (It was written in blue on the newbies thread so I assumed it was)

Coupon-mad

It doesn't change your response to CP Plus, but it's a good point that it's a penalty because this means there will be no POPLA (maybe ITAL instead...or maybe CP Plus have not got a suitable ADR in place in which case they will be stuck?).

I still think CP Plus will cancel when they see the template and that no driver has been identified, it makes you too much like hard work!

The_Deep

Is this not a matter for Trading Standards? You have entered uinto a contract to park and now indigo are trying to charge more than was agreed. Also, complain to your MP.

The whole industry is a scam, relying on threats of court, and the public's ignorance of the Law, A bill is currently before parliament which will regulate the scammers, many of whom are ex-clampers.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Second Reading in the Lords this month, and, with a fair wind, will l become Law later this year..

All five readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 7-8 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.

thingamaBob

The_Deep wrote: »

Is this not a matter for Trading Standards? You have entered uinto a contract to park and now indigo are trying to charge more than was agreed. Also, complain to your MP.

But what if your MP is in prison for a motoring offence?