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Buying property with title but NO lease

I am interested in buying a property that is a leasehold, however the seller does not have a copy of the lease, but has a copy of the title. They have assured me that they would transfer the title to my name, but do not have a copy of the 999 year lease, which is also missing from land registry. I will need to decide by tomorrow on whether I would want to exchange contracts, due to complications, so any help would be greatly appreciated. My main concern is not having seen a copy of the lease.. and whether the landlord would be able to repossess the property, given I'm the new property occupier, but with no lease, and also the existing missing lease not being in my name. If I where to exchange contracts, and have the title in my name, would it be ok then off to try request from the landlord to change the lease to my name, or would this whole operation be too risky to proceed? :huh:
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Comments

  • davidmcn
    davidmcn Posts: 23,596 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    If you're this close to exchange then presumably you already have legal advice on this - so what is your solicitor saying?
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    You will buy the leasehold Title and your name will be registered on the Title held by the Land Registry.


    You cannot be evicted.


    Even if the seller and/or landlord had a copy of the lease, this would not be changed into your name. You are buying the lease as it was originally created, between the original freeholder and the original leaseholder.


    The original leaseholder sells it on as it is and the next owner has their ownership registered with the LR.


    So your issue is not abut ownership.


    It is about not knowing what the lease says! It may have restrictions in it that you may not like eg
    * not allowed to sell alcohol
    * no loud music after 7 pm
    * cannot build any outbuildings or extensions
    * no commercialvehicles to be parked on the drive
    and on and on and on
  • AnotherJoe
    AnotherJoe Posts: 19,622 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fifth Anniversary Name Dropper Photogenic
    I am interested in buying a property that is a leasehold, however the seller does not have a copy of the lease, but has a copy of the title. They have assured me that they would transfer the title to my name, but do not have a copy of the 999 year lease, which is also missing from land registry. I will need to decide by tomorrow on whether I would want to exchange contracts, due to complications, so any help would be greatly appreciated. My main concern is not having seen a copy of the lease.. and whether the landlord would be able to repossess the property, given I'm the new property occupier, but with no lease, and also the existing missing lease not being in my name. If I where to exchange contracts, and have the title in my name, would it be ok then off to try request from the landlord to change the lease to my name, or would this whole operation be too risky to proceed? :huh:


    My answer is that clearly you should ................... ask your solicitor.
  • Thanks for clarifying. The property is currently a mixed residential/commercial. I would like to convert it to be fully residential, and would need planning permission. Another concern would be restrictions to allow for the conversion, based on terms and conditions on the lease that I'm unaware off. But I would believe it is unlikely to have such restrictions on a lease? Also from my understanding, if any of the terms on the lease are breached, such as land rent not being payed by the previous leaseholder, would I be held responsible to pay for it, if I were to buy the property? But more importantly, would that allow for the landlord to repossess the property, given I've inherited these issues from the previous leaseholder? Just a lot of questions on my mind, and your help is appreciated, thanks again
  • G_M wrote: »
    You will buy the leasehold Title and your name will be registered on the Title held by the Land Registry.


    You cannot be evicted.


    Even if the seller and/or landlord had a copy of the lease, this would not be changed into your name. You are buying the lease as it was originally created, between the original freeholder and the original leaseholder.


    The original leaseholder sells it on as it is and the next owner has their ownership registered with the LR.


    So your issue is not abut ownership.


    It is about not knowing what the lease says! It may have restrictions in it that you may not like eg
    * not allowed to sell alcohol
    * no loud music after 7 pm
    * cannot build any outbuildings or extensions
    * no commercialvehicles to be parked on the drive
    and on and on and on
    My bad, the response above this post is aimed for you.
  • davidmcn wrote: »
    If you're this close to exchange then presumably you already have legal advice on this - so what is your solicitor saying?

    The solicitor has not clarified about whether the landlord cannot repossess the property, with certainty. Time is not on my hands at the moment, and currently don't have the means to ask anyone else locally about this.
  • davidmcn
    davidmcn Posts: 23,596 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    If the lease later turned up, the landlord may be able to enforce any covenants in the lease or (subject to certain limits) recover unpaid rent (whether due by you or your predecessor). You can get indemnity insurance for missing leases, though if you really need to make a decision tomorrow about whether to exchange, you don't realistically have any time to investigate the availability of insurance or discuss with the vendor who ought to be paying for it.

    Your solicitor should of course be providing you with proper advice about the risks, given this is what you're paying them for.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Thanks for clarifying. The property is currently a mixed residential/commercial. I would like to convert it to be fully residential, and would need planning permission. correct.
    Another concern would be restrictions to allow for the conversion, based on terms and conditions on the lease that I'm unaware off. But I would believe it is unlikely to have such restrictions on a lease? No idea why you believe that. Personally I think the opposite: it is highly likely thet the terms of the lease will specify its use. You may be right of course, but buying a lease in ignorance of this would be foolhardy in the extreme.

    Also from my understanding, if any of the terms on the lease are breached, such as land rent not being payed by the previous leaseholder, would I be held responsible to pay for it, if I were to buy the property? Yes. You should ascertain whether the ground rent, and any service charges, are up to date before you purchase.

    But more importantly, would that allow for the landlord to repossess the property, given I've inherited these issues from the previous leaseholder?
    Yes, ultimately if valid charges against the lease are unpaid, the lease can be forfeited, irresective of who owned the lease at the time of the missed payments.

    Just a lot of questions on my mind, and your help is appreciated, thanks again
    If as you say you "will need to decide by tomorrow on whether I would want to exchange contracts, due to complications," then you only have one sensible option.
  • Tom99
    Tom99 Posts: 5,371 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary
    Is the freehold title registered, if so who to and when?
    When does the 999yr lease run from 1789? 1889? 1989?
    Going ahead if the lease is 999yrs from 1789 and is unregistered would be a complete different risk from a lease where the freehold is registered and runs from recent times.
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 6,056 Organisation Representative
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 11 February 2019 pm28 1:52PM
    I assume the landlord/freeholder hasn't got a copy either then? Most leases are done in duplicate or a counterpart exists so each has a version executed by the other party when granted

    And if you intend 'changing things around' then it might be prudent to think about a new lease as that will give you some certainty and also an opportunity for both parties to determine (close) the old lease and register the new one. That can solve the missing issue but may create new issues though so something to be careful with if that's a considered option.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
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