Symbio Energy feedback

Snudz

On numerous occasions during my complaints process I pointed out that they are effectively taking an interest free loan from their customer base.  They of course deny this and say they are not doing this since they reconcile the bills the following month.  Maybe I'm being stupid, they obviously think I am but, as I pointed out to them, if you overcharge customers by X% in month 1, reconcile and refund that in month 2 but overcharge again by Y% in month 2 and continue this process, you are in fact running with an interest free loan from your customer base.   They start the over billing around October, increase through to January and then decrease through to June.  Whereby things settle down and then the process repeats - just in team to settle any outstanding payments with OFGEM.

Talldave

Spot on. Remember last time around the cash grab for their interest free loan started in January, this time it's started in the first week of November, possibly just in time to keep Ofgem sweet. Their loan from me has started around the £30 mark. It'll be interesting to see if they increase the ludicrous estimate even more over winter. 

I'm sure they know exactly what they're doing and believe that a few weasel words about increased winter consumption justifies borrowing hundreds of thousands of pounds from their customers. 

devondiver

wwally said:

FB doesn't seem to be active, and no responses on Trustpilot recently.

- apart from a flush of 1-star revues, rants and DD cancellations. Perhaps if they do pull through and charge everyone 10 or 20 pounds to re-instate DDs they'll have the dosh to pay their dues.
 Their Twitter feed also has gone quiet after a flurry of save-the-planet posts up to 22nd Oct.
So assuming they are in the process of folding what happens next?? And when?? I owe them money and have been calling and emailing over the past week trying to pay but all to no avail.

Stratus

The winter billing is explained in their terms and conditions. If people have recently signed up or renewed, this should not be a surprise. This winter billing was one of the reasons I didn't renew with them at the end of October but I keep looking at this thread purely for the entertainment value. My consumption is pretty consistent through the year so prefer to simply have a fixed monthly DD. Their winter billing was introduced without warning to customers last year and it wasn't until June that the T&Cs were updated to reflect this. Those anticipating the winter billing will begin to decline after January are in for a shock. My EAC when I joined was 3600kWh with an actual consumption over the 12 months of just under 3500. The following is how my billing was adjusted from the EAC over the period I was with them:
Nov -7%
Dec +18%
Jan +89%
Feb +32%
Mar +61%
Apr +59%
May +45%
June +35%
July -4%
Aug -16%
Sept -16%
As you can see, last year positive billing didn't start until December and continued through to and included June.
If people want an angle to complain they could focus on the word 'winter' in the T&Cs

payments in winter are based on winter estimates

The meteorological winter is only December, January and February. The astronomical winter doesn't start until the winter solstice.
Nowhere on this hemisphere can it be applied to June.

UnclaimedEnergy

devondiver said:

I note that two of the directors have recently (10.09.2020) started a new company - Carbonyte Limited from the same Watford address to which they have 8 other companies registered, mostly concerning energy.

  - Interesting.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carbonyte-ltd-0512551b9/?originalSubdomain=uk - same company I think.

Looks like they're focusing on crypto current with this one...

Talldave

My complaint to them is quite simple. When I renewed on my current tariff I was offered a choice of fixed or variable direct debit with pretty graphs of the payment schedule for each option, along with a click to renew button. Since the graph of payments was for an EAC I'm currently below, I expect them to honour the payment schedule I accepted. 

Snudz

Stratus said:

The winter billing is explained in their terms and conditions. If people have recently signed up or renewed, this should not be a surprise. This winter billing was one of the reasons I didn't renew with them at the end of October but I keep looking at this thread purely for the entertainment value. My consumption is pretty consistent through the year so prefer to simply have a fixed monthly DD. Their winter billing was introduced without warning to customers last year and it wasn't until June that the T&Cs were updated to reflect this. Those anticipating the winter billing will begin to decline after January are in for a shock. My EAC when I joined was 3600kWh with an actual consumption over the 12 months of just under 3500. The following is how my billing was adjusted from the EAC over the period I was with them:
Nov -7%
Dec +18%
Jan +89%
Feb +32%
Mar +61%
Apr +59%
May +45%
June +35%
July -4%
Aug -16%
Sept -16%
As you can see, last year positive billing didn't start until December and continued through to and included June.
If people want an angle to complain they could focus on the word 'winter' in the T&Cs

payments in winter are based on winter estimates

The meteorological winter is only December, January and February. The astronomical winter doesn't start until the winter solstice.
Nowhere on this hemisphere can it be applied to June.

Snap.   My sign up EAC was also approx. 3600kWh and the billing estimates were as for yours.   I thought I'd signed up (Sept '19) for fixed DD, took from Jan to Mar to get it finally onto fixed DD.   After that I didn't care how much they over estimated by since the DD was fixed.   It was a lot of hassle keep chasing them and trying to get them to implement what was agreed.   The final straw for me was when they neglected to collect the fixed DD because the bill was generated too close to the collection date.   What that has to do with it when the DD is fixed I have no idea.   They offered £5 by way of an apology for the missed DD and then said they'd collect 2 months DD the following month.  I politely declined both offers.

Eventually went to the Ombudsman who upheld 4 counts of 5.   The only one not upheld was the ridiculous billing system on the basis that billing is not in their remit and the fact I never actually asked for help in understanding the bill and did so (eventually) on my own.   Although the Ombudsman did concede that for some the bills would be difficult to decipher and understand.   

Final offer from Symbio for the overall complaint was £25 and to waive my exit fee.  Again politely declined on the basis of the amount of time and effort I had expended in getting any sort of response from them and to actually action anything.   Also the fact that when they offered to waive the fees I was within the final 49 days of my contract and as such there were no fees to waive and so was an empty gesture.

Streaky_Bacon

Talldave said:

Their estimates are totally artificial and, from what we know of all contributors here, way above what anyone actually uses. So they don't have to pass that money on to anyone. Which means it's in their bank account and available for keeping Ofgem happy.

I appreciate that they are invented figures, but how do Network X decide what to charge Symbio?
If Network X charge Symbio 9p/kWh, how do they decide how many kWh to charge Symbio for Mr. Smith's usage?
Isn't it based upon how many kWh Symbio say that Mr. Smith has used?
So, if Symbio invent 1,000 kWh of usage for Mr. Smith, they can bill 11p/kWh for that, but won't they soon have to pay Network X 9p/kWh for that?
If they do, then they'll have the cash in the short term, to pay OFGEM, but will also have built up a  liability based upon those inflated figures.
I don't disagree that they are doing so for short term cash flow, I'm just suggesting that it won't clear their liabilities for any significant time.
For companies that don't rebalance the account, and simply take large DDs, without claiming more actual kWh, that could build up a greater cash balance.

Talldave

I would imagine they pay in arrears for actual consumption. Even if they have to buy in advance, they know we aren't using the estimated amounts - they'll use our EACs for that, which can be confirmed by the anonymous industry meter reading organisation. 

The ludicrous over estimates are simply a total fiction between Symbio and us in order to get a positive cash amount in their bank account for 7-8 months of the year. Nobody's using that amount so there's no need for them to order or pay for it from the generators.

Taking things to the extreme,  if Symbio had millions of customers like BG and were over-estimating consumption by 60-70% and ordering that amount from the generators, someone would be panicking about building new power stations to meet the demand!

The reality is that the consumption doesn't exist and they don't have to ask for it to be generated.

Streaky_Bacon

Talldave said:

I would imagine they pay in arrears for actual consumption. Even if they have to buy in advance, they know we aren't using the estimated amounts - they'll use our EACs for that, which can be confirmed by the anonymous industry meter reading organisation. 

The ludicrous over estimates are simply a total fiction between Symbio and us in order to get a positive cash amount in their bank account for 7-8 months of the year. Nobody's using that amount so there's no need for them to order or pay for it from the generators.

But is there a way for the network to measure actual consumption for a supplier? There is no way for the network to ever actually know how much Mr. Smith has used, is there? The only way to ever really know is by reading the meter. I doubt that the networks only bill the suppliers when there is a confirmed meter reading. What about customer who hardly ever read their meters and get months and years of estimated bills?

I don't know the ins and outs of the process, but the only workable system would seem to be for the network to bill the supplier for the same amount of kWh that the supplier bills their customers (whether estimated or actual).

In terms of timescales, I read something recently that Ofgem were trying to push the networks to accept payments from suppliers in 3 months arrears, so it is currently, presumably, much less than that.