Ever wondered what ex UKPC wardens do ???

beamerguy

discat11 wrote: »

Intimidation & Harassment are offences, so I'd hope someone has been reporting such to the police.
Charges are the remit of the local council so if they are disproportionate I'd be taking it up with them.

Once again, I'm sympathetic with the people receiving 'fines' if the offence is momentarily dropping a piece of paper and being caught in the space before/ act of picking it up etc, but I don't have a lot of time for people who casually litter getting 'fined'.

I would like to think that nobody on here would be a litter bug but even I have taken my phone out of my jacket pocket and a receipt has fallen out.

The police have better things to do so will not be interested.
The council will fob you off, A FOI is a good idea but, in a recent FOI to my council, I was told that they do not hold the info I requested. It is now in the hands of the lead councillor as to why they feed cr*p to the public .... still waiting for thar answer

Coupon-mad

I think fly tippers need a large fine, but this individual fining scam is...obviously...a scam.

People can't even get their gloves out their coat pocket without some aggressive goon snarling at them for a receipt dropping to the floor, etc. MistyZ's account is typical, and horrific.

Pathetic penalty culture this Country should never have started.

Elysander

Liverpool council terminated their contract with Kingdom due to the huge number of complaints regarding the aggressive behavior of the wardens Surprisingly, the wardens don't need to film/photograph the act of littering. They can issue fines claiming that they saw you litter. As they are paid a bonus of £5 per ticket, they issue them like confetti!

The Liverpool Echo has run several stories on Kingdom

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/shocking-leaked-whatsapp-chats-show-15366589

The Liverpool Litter Plod in action. They don't like being filmed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYXOO02-W74

Foreign exchange students being targeted in Brighton. Apparently Brighton council have terminated their contract with 3GS which will end next month.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/16196376.3gs-litter-wardens-target-foreign-students-in-brighton/

Coupon-mad

Foreign exchange students being targeted in Brighton. Apparently Brighton council have terminated their contract with 3GS which will end next month.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/16196376.3gs-litter-wardens-target-foreign-students-in-brighton/

Good, if they've terminated that contract - but the Council at Brighton (BHCC) are useless in so many ways they will probably take on another, worse firm. They reckon they can use One Parking Solutions to fine people at Stanmer Park (Council owned):

https://new.brighton-hove.gov.uk/news/2017/council-takes-action-inconsiderate-parking-stanmer-park

Needless to say I've helped a few people to win at POPLA (not relevant land) but this is the sort of thing BHCC reckon they can do.

discat11

Umkomaas wrote: »

But the big question is who's fining whom? An incentivised goon working for an unregulated private company pocketing the bulk of the penalty?

Why don't the LA regularise all of this by putting their own (non-incentivised) uniformed people on the streets, tasked with primarily educating people, but if a ticket is to be issued, a fair appeals process is available to the induvidual to access?

Now that I agree with.
I get the argument that privatised companies can bring entrepreneur like thinking to public services and that a profit motive can incentivise such, but I've never been convinced that if a private company can provide a public service and square the circle of ensuring a profit for shareholders that it cannot be publicly owned, staffed and controlled without absolutely needing to make a profit.

Is the process this private company carrying out unregulated and not also having a fair independent appeals process then?

The_Slithy_Tove

Is a worker for a private company (even if contracted by the council) allowed to demand your name and address? Simply walk away (OK, I get the "backed into a wall" comment from MistyZ, so not necessarily always an option). What can they do? They cannot "detain", which is what cornering one of their victims is, so who is guilty of the more serious offence?

Elysander

They have no authority to detain people, although they like to pretend they have.

There are several You Tube clips of wardens following people over long distances trying to intimidate them in to giving their details. Here's a very interesting Panorama documentary from 2017 when they sent an undercover reporter to work at Kingdom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pi6C1FVuhY

nosferatu1001

I would call the police stating I am being followed by dodgy people claiming to be working for the council, they are being aggressive and intimidating and you have a genuine fear for your safety.
Make sure they can hear your call.

Computersaysno

If they try to 'do you' [as in issue you with a ticket] you simply need to pick up the piece of litter....you've no longer committed an offence.

LoneStarState

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/enforcement-officers-issuing-fixed-penalty-notices#when-to-issue-fixed-penalty-notices

The above link is mighty helpful. Worthy highlights include:

"Don’t issue an FPN if any of the following apply:

there’s no criminal liability
enforcement action is inappropriate or would be disproportionate for the offence
prosecution is more suitable
littering is done accidentally"

..........

"Enforcement action is inappropriate or disproportionate

Don’t issue an FPN in the following cases:

it’s not in the public interest to do so
the offender is vulnerable
the offence is trivial"

............

"Accidental littering

Don’t issue FPNs for accidental littering, for example if something falls from someone’s pocket.
Only issue FPNs where there is evidence of intent to drop litter.
Give offenders the chance to pick up litter before you issue an FPN. Warn them that you will issue an FPN if they don’t."

Of course, litter goons will still push on with their need to get those juicy bonuses. Fortunately I haven't had an encounter with them yet. Shameful and embarassing really and completely at odds with the spirit of the law.