PCN - Parking Charge Notice - on private road without Signs

mrhelp

Hi All,
Newbie on here with my first post.

I have received 2 PCN's from a PPC for the same date and time for two vehicles as the keeper for both vehicles under schedule 4 of POFA. The PCNs were issued on a Private Road which is outside by business address frontage whereby I have right of way (easement access) to my premises from the public road
However the key information here is that there was no signage displayed on the date and neither is there any signage displayed to date, not at the entrance to the private road or the locations where my vehicles were parked on this private road (i have taken photos and made videos of this whole area yesterday to show the absence of signage).
The irony is they are relying on Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the POFA to enforce unpaid parking charge on the keeper, but with the absence of the signage they themselves are not adhering to the Paragraph 2(2) of Schedule 4 of the POFA. Please correct me if i'm wrong in interpreting this

1)The fourth condition is that any applicable requirements prescribed under this paragraph were met at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.
(2)The appropriate national authority may by regulations made by statutory instrument prescribe requirements as to the display of notices on relevant land where parking charges may be incurred in respect of the parking of vehicles on the land.
(3)The provision made under sub-paragraph (2) may, in particular, include provision—
(a)requiring notices of more than one kind to be displayed on any relevant land;
(b)as to the content or form of any notices required to be displayed; and
(c)as to the location of any notices required to be displayed.


From the information on this forum and my own research I understand the PCN's were generated using the SELF-TICKETING app supplied by the PPC to the LANDLORD who has taken the pics. The pics only show date and one time so i'm assuming the idea is to enforce a 'NO PARKING' rule as oppose to the timed parking rule. There is a twist thou other people park on this road who are the the landlords tenants of adjoining properties to this private road but have not been subject to the PCN's. The landlord hasn't issued any permits to his tenants. I believe he has not put the signs up deliberately to avoid backlash from his tenants as their customers will get deterred to visiting them, thus loss in business and therefore some rather unhappy tenants. He has specifically targeted my vehicles as I own my business premises and have a right- of - way (easement) to my premises via his private road.

I have read the NEWBIE section on this forum which was very informative and helpful. Just wanted some advise whether to follow the route of:
a) using the the standard template (ONE SIZE FITS ALL) on the NEWBIE thread for initial reply to the PPC as it is with or without the photo evidence of no signage
or
b) simply complaining (via email) to the PPC (ipc member), IPC and the DVLA as it's clear breach of the code of practice and enclose the photo evidence of the area, thus rendering the PCN void
or
c) totally going Militant and ignoring and not replying at all

Also any advise going forth should the signs be put up

P.S. i'm keeping myself up to date with the current bill for Parking Code of Practice in the House of Commons, hopefully some better stewardship!

Any advise in this regard is appreciated people.
Thanking you in anticipation

Fruitcake

What is the name of the PPC please?

I would send the blue template anyway.

Do not ignore.

If signs appear, check the council planning department for advertising consent. Not having it is a criminal offence.

mrhelp

UKCPM Ltd, no doubt you'll have heard of them on this forum

Coupon-mad

Yes, and you should search the forum for them. Put UKCPM in the search box. You will learn so much more than you will ever get replies on this little thread, and it will help you prepare to defend a claim.

Do this but only if you have evidence of wrongdoing:

simply complaining (via email) to the PPC (ipc member), IPC and the DVLA as it's clear breach of the code of practice and enclose the photo evidence of the area, thus rendering the PCN void

mrhelp

Fruitcake wrote: »

What is the name of the PPC please?

I would send the blue template anyway.

Do not ignore.

If signs appear, check the council planning department for advertising consent. Not having it is a criminal offence.

Thanks for the prompt reply, I was thinking of may be sending the Blue Reply and also emailing the IPC and DVLA on complaint format, quoting the contradiction in the legislation of POFA - I know I have a strong case, but want to my reply to hit them from all angles - go in guns blazing!:D

If the signs go up they'll probably be on his( landlords) premises so don't think council will bother.

Thanks again

mrhelp

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yes, and you should search the forum for them. Put UKCPM in the search box. You will learn so much more than you will ever get replies on this little thread, and it will help you prepare to defend a claim.
Will look them up now the crooks

Do this but only if you have evidence of wrongdoing:

I have photos from yesterday of all the road and the videos showing no signage at all. Ive geo-tagged the pics with location and date, hence why wanted to go down the route of complaining via email - Hit them from all angles

Do you think I should also reply using the appeals process using the NEWBIE blue template

Coupon-mad

Yes, do both.

I like your evidence. A few years ago, other firms (UKPC and separately, I think UKCPS) were banned for ticketing where there were no signs. It's a serious matter.

Go for it!

Fruitcake

I don't know if the IPC will do anything, but you never know. There might just be porcine aviation following a blood moon.

I would complain to the DVLA though with the tagged images showing the PPC has issued PCNs at a place where there is no signage and therefore there could not possibly be a contract between the motorist and the PPC and therefore they had no business obtaining keeper details.

mrhelp

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yes, do both.

I like your evidence. A few years ago, other firms (UKPC and separately, I think UKCPS) were banned for ticketing where there were no signs. It's a serious matter.

Go for it!

Thanks for the re-assurance, in terms of order of replying I was thinking :
1) reply via email to the PPC using the NEWBIE blue template and simultaneously reply to as separate official complaint email
2) A day later email IPC and DVLA complaints officially

or should I email them all at once?

Thanks again for your valued advice

Coupon-mad

I'd do the DVLA one before the IPC one and make sure the DVLA do not fob you off to the IPC. Tell them you insist they take this seriously, as David Dunford would have done if he was still in the job he was in when the DVLA didn't fob people off as quickly.

And write to your MP - and maybe expose the scam site in the local press.

mrhelp

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I'd do the DVLA one before the IPC one and make sure the DVLA do not fob you off to the IPC. Tell them you insist they take this seriously, as David Dunford would have done if he was still in the job he was in when the DVLA didn't fob people off as quickly.

And write to your MP - and maybe expose the scam site in the local press.

Thanks again, will get on this asap and keep you posted