PCN issued on a private, unadopted road

KeithP

jackRlnd wrote: »

7/11/2019, so from the MCOL advice pdf, I assume I have 33 days until my defence must be submitted?

That's right.

With a Claim Issue Date of 7th November, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 10th December 2019 to file your Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

[Deleted User]

Ive lived on an unaopted road for 27 years some residents in their deeds own the road frontage in front of their property this was purely and simply so they have responsibility for maintaining the area of roadway in front of their property. That is all that is said , no reference to the frontage being the owners private land so they have exclusive rights to it for parking .

Coupon-mad

If the permits are irrelevant to this particular PCN should I stick with my defense of failure to follow all the conditions for Keeper Liability to apply, i.e. the car was not parked on 'relevant land' as the public has full use of the road all through the year and thus by common law deemed a highway.

No, I think that would be a struggle to win in county court.

Or am I incorrect in thinking that private companies like CPM cannot issue PCNs on a highway.

They can't, but this isn't public highway is it?

jackRlnd

They can't, but this isn't public highway is it?

I might be barking up the wrong tree but from what I've read, despite it being a private road it is also a highway for which there are no distinctions between public and private.

"A highway is a way over which there exists a public right of passage, that is to say a right for all Her Majesty’s subjects at all seasons of the year freely and at their will to pass and repass without let or hindrance. (Halsbury’s Laws 21[1])."

If this as a defence is unlikely to win in court, the fact that I've already filed an AOS does this mean I have to go to court now or can I still just pay the PCN and any additional costs.

Coupon-mad

No-one would pay the huge sum claimed.

You have absolutely LOADS to use in defence, like everyone else does, and your point about the grey area of public highway can be included but IMHO is probably not a silver bullet.

Read CEC16's thread right now (NO LINK) and see the posts about the hearing. You need to know that these charges are a scam and that there is lots that can kill them off.

nosferatu1001

It is indeed a highway, to which the RTEs would apply. As such it is not "relevant land" for the purposes of POFA.

jackRlnd

quick update, I've just received an email from the association of the road to which I belong and a neighbour along this road went to court and won on the basis that signage/lighting was inadequate.

I'll try and get more information but for the time being, is this something I should use in my defense i.e. a similar case being ruled in favour of defendant?

Given that I'd been issued a visitor's permit would it be argued that I knew about the signs so whether they were difficult to read/notice is irrelevant? Also, whilst my permit is visible in the photographic evidence of some other PCNs I've been issued, the permit is not visible in the one this Claim refers to.

I've no doubt if claims are made against the other PCNs I've been issued, the court would rule in my favour as none of the terms were breached. This one however seems a little more sketchy and I'm worried my having a permit but failing to adequately display it on the windshield automatically diminishes any defense I can put fwd

Coupon-mad

I'll try and get more information but for the time being, is this something I should use in my defense i.e. a similar case being ruled in favour of defendant?

Please change your PC's spellcheck to English, not USA, but yes your defence should mention it.

Given that I'd been issued a visitor's permit would it be argued that I knew about the signs so whether they were difficult to read/notice is irrelevant?

They will certainly try to say that, but you can say that the visitor's permit had no information with it, nothing about a parking charge of £100 being agreed, and nothing to say that terms of the remote signs formed part of the contract and obligation that came with the permit - in other words, the signs were not part of the permit 'terms' such as they were. And no contract was communicated at all.

Also, whilst my permit is visible in the photographic evidence of some other PCNs I've been issued, the permit is not visible in the one this Claim refers to.

OK so maybe the defence should actually focus more on the signs, in this case.

Umkomaas

jackRlnd wrote: »

received everything they had on me except for the initial appeal I made for the PCN in question. I was considering emailing them back to ask for it as I have an email receipt for that appeal

If you don't have your own copy, yes.

jackRlnd wrote: »

Also, can I request a copy of the contract they have with the landowner that gives them the right to manage the area?

Nope - it contains none of your personal information. SARs only relate to personal data/information.

But you can ask for it as part of their evidence for the court hearing.

jackRlnd

Umkomaas wrote: »

But you can ask for it as part of their evidence for the court hearing.

If I do not request this ( I assume they can deny providing it at this point in time?), is it something they will have to provide later?