Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Advice4sue

Hmmmm......worrying that people can be so passionate about an outcome of their ‘cause’ that they don’t worry it has potential to make their life worse.

And i’m completely baffled as to why Boris has such a hold on so many Brexiteers when he didn’t even particularly want to win the referendum. But I guess his self promoting worked in terms of getting him to PM.
Of course his popularity in the polls is no doubt a reflection on the lack of a decent /credible opposition leader.

There is a very funny cartoon doing the rounds of FB which shows Boris as Churchill doing a version of the ‘Never have so many’ quote. I can’t link it but do try to find it. It will lighten the mood although it’s probably true........

Moby

Advice4sue wrote: »

mayonnaise - your quote ....
I]‘I'm a diabetic. I rely on insulin, but I still want to leave.
The reporter appeared shocked and responded:
If the insulin doesn't arrive, for you as a diabetic, you think that's a price worth paying?’
The Brexiteer responded:
Yeah I do. Because we voted to leave.[/I]

I’m using my phone so can’t use the quote buttons but.....
Really? I don’t think anyone would consider that a typical response by the vast majority of people who rely on life saving medications. Sorry that’s seems a bizarre quote to have used.
Again the fact is we don’t know what will happen. That is the worryingly part.

Mayo's example illustrates the mentality. Brexit is an unthinking cult....people are so strident about it that reason and evidence is dismissed as 'project fear' or 'propaganda'.

The political and economic arguments will rage back and forth but the weight of evidence is clearly on the side of those who say brexit will cause economic harm to us.... the only argument is how much harm? There are also things we can be pretty certain about...... we now know there will be an ongoing problem with Ireland because of two different customs areas.......we also know that Scotland will increasingly move away from the rUK towards independence....we know as a matter of fact that leaving the EU will remove us from the EU bodies that make decisions which will go on affecting us, thereby reducing our influence/power etc....!
The question is what's the upside?.....what will being out of the EU allow you to do that you couldn't do while being in the EU and is it worth the likely cost?

Conina

Advice4sue wrote: »

No I’m not relying on propaganda or negative media. I’m intelligent enough to think for myself and see around blatant propaganda which has been present on both sides.
Whilst yes, the global financial situation is worrying regardless of Brexit, the fact is no one knows what the outcome of a no deal Brexit is. Businesses are vital to our economy and a no deal/ or bad deal will affect businesses who trade with the EU. How can it not? How can anyone know otherwise?

You're absolutely right that nobody really knows what the outcome of a no deal Brexit will mean but since you accept that business is vital to our economy and any deal or lack thereof will affect those businesses that deal with the EU it might be opportune to recognise that not only will this affect EU businesses in equal measure (or perhaps more-so given the £90 billion/year surplus) but for the UK it might well see opportunities which are unavailable to us as EU members; that's why the EU is worried that the UK leaving could provoke unrest in other member countries if the UK does well post-Brexit.

Conina

Advice4sue wrote: »

mayonnaise - your quote ....
I]‘I'm a diabetic. I rely on insulin, but I still want to leave.
The reporter appeared shocked and responded:
If the insulin doesn't arrive, for you as a diabetic, you think that's a price worth paying?’
The Brexiteer responded:
Yeah I do. Because we voted to leave.[/I]

I’m using my phone so can’t use the quote buttons but.....
Really? I don’t think anyone would consider that a typical response by the vast majority of people who rely on life saving medications. Sorry that’s seems a bizarre quote to have used.
Again the fact is we don’t know what will happen. That is the worryingly part.

I see you've already sussed the extreme anti-Brexit rhetoric used here but medicines are made globally you know, not just in the EU and regarding insulin specifically read the below.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2019/sep/16-weeks-of-insulin-stockpiled-in-brexit-contingency-plans-93674148.html

Advice4sue

Conina - we will have to agree to disagree.
Yes of course there may be newer opportunities but I personally feel they will be fewer than the current opportunities we have within the EU. And again, it’s all unknown at this stage. It’s a gamble.
Many small businesses trade with the EU because it’s so easy at present. I used to have a small online business using EBay. Trading with customers from the EU was so easy. Mine was a tiny business but nevertheless I still contributed to our economy through it. There are many such businesses and I can’t believe that leaving EU will be positive

Conina

Moby wrote: »

The question is what's the upside?.....what will being out of the EU allow you to do that you couldn't do while being in the EU and is it worth the likely cost?

That's easy; choice.

We can choose where to buy and sell without being dictated-to; we can prioritise what is best for our own country; we can distance ourselves from an increasingly federalist union; we can choose who to allow entry to our country and who to refuse; those reasons alone make "the likely cost" very worthwhile indeed.

Conina

Advice4sue wrote: »

Conina - we will have to agree to disagree.
Yes of course there may be newer opportunities but I personally feel they will be fewer than the current opportunities we have within the EU. And again, it’s all unknown at this stage. It’s a gamble.
Many small businesses trade with the EU because it’s so easy at present. I used to have a small online business using EBay. Trading with customers from the EU was so easy. Mine was a tiny business but nevertheless I still contributed to our economy through it. There are many such businesses and I can’t believe that leaving EU will be positive

You're right but then there will always be "glass half full" people, such is life.
It's interesting that you mention eBay because it's not just the EU that it makes trading with easy as I know myself, having sold a fair bit to the USA without problems when interestingly it's a few EU countries that caused the greatest difficulties (esp. Italy) & the forum for eBay here has threads on trade with other countries.

Herzlos

Advice4sue wrote: »

Hmmmm......worrying that people can be so passionate about an outcome of their ‘cause’ that they don’t worry it has potential to make their life worse.

It's cognative dissonance - they'll say they are willing to endure anything because of Brexit because they don't believe any of it can happen because they've been told it won't. They still believe (because they want to, not because of any facts) that it's all going to be sunny uplands.
The chap who is willing to die due to insulin shortages will be purple with rage when he actually encounters a shortage.

And i’m completely baffled as to why Boris has such a hold on so many Brexiteers when he didn’t even particularly want to win the referendum.

More cognative dissonance. They can ignore the fact he's a habitual liar and all round terrible person because he's promising to deliver Brexit, and delivering Brexit is all that matters. They won't even consider the possibility that he's lying about delivering Brexit too, because it suits them to believe it.
Again, once reality hits they'll be outraged anew.


The Tories biggest concern isn't the fallout from failing to deliver Brexit, it's the fallout from delivering it and witnessing reality slap 17,400,000 patriots around the head.

Herzlos

Conina wrote: »

You're right but then there will always be "glass half full" people, such is life.
It's interesting that you mention eBay because it's not just the EU that it makes trading with easy as I know myself, having sold a fair bit to the USA without problems when interestingly it's a few EU countries that caused the greatest difficulties (esp. Italy) & the forum for eBay here has threads on trade with other countries.

Italy seems to be a bit of a black hole when it comes to the mail system, so a lot of people don't sell to there.


I've traded with EU countries, the US and China for various size/cost products and found the EU stuff is always faster and smoother - US stuff can take a bit longer and can result in a lot of customs cost/delay, China can be hit or miss with timing and tariffs. With the EU trade you barely notice it's not going to the UK.

Conina

Herzlos wrote: »

Italy seems to be a bit of a black hole when it comes to the mail system, so a lot of people don't sell to there.


I've traded with EU countries, the US and China for various size/cost products and found the EU stuff is always faster and smoother - US stuff can take a bit longer and can result in a lot of customs cost/delay, China can be hit or miss with timing and tariffs. With the EU trade you barely notice it's not going to the UK.

So long as it's not eastern EU countries you mean? Greece & Cyprus are pretty bad too but not as bad as Romania etc. and TBH my USA shipments are often just as quick as EU though it does depend where from and far, far faster than the usual Chinese.