Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

SpiderLegs

Herzlos wrote: »

Why are you Leavers so scared of asking the public if they still want to leave? Are you worried you'll lose, because the public support isn't there?
If Brexit really is the will of the people, a confirmatory referendum would put an end to all this indecision.

Nobody is scared. Calling it such might fit the narrative but really it is a very simple question of fairness.

You are suggesting that in order to actually leave the eu, supporters have to win two referenda. In order to remain, supporters only have to win one.

Perhaps if those rules had been laid out up front it would at least have been transparent. But to make them up purely as a result of the first vote is thoroughly dishonest. No wonder politicians are held in such contempt.

You can’t seriously expect that anyone believes this confirmatory garbage. Everyone knows what it is. It’s only now being called confirmatory as a marketing rebrand just try get some vague justification. One could compare it to the response to TM’s ‘bold’ offer. I.e the same old carp just in a different hat.

borntobefree

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Nobody is scared. Calling it such might fit the narrative but really it is a very simple question of fairness.

You are suggesting that in order to actually leave the eu, supporters have to win two referenda. In order to remain, supporters only have to win one.

Perhaps if those rules had been laid out up front it would at least have been transparent. But to make them up purely as a result of the first vote is thoroughly dishonest. No wonder politicians are held in such contempt.

You can’t seriously expect that anyone believes this confirmatory garbage. Everyone knows what it is. It’s only now being called confirmatory as a marketing rebrand just try get some vague justification. One could compare it to the response to TM’s ‘bold’ offer. I.e the same old carp just in a different hat.

Yes you are scared. Now people can see the lies and spin for what they are...and you’re scared to have a second vote because you’ll lose.....

You won’t be able to sell a no deal Brexit to the British people and the lies you’ve told will be exposed.

What will you put on the bus this time?

lisyloo

SpiderLegs wrote: »

You are suggesting that in order to actually leave the eu, supporters have to win two referenda. In order to remain, supporters only have to win one.

Let me be open and honest and call the first one null and void due to

Deliberate lies
Illegal funding
Complex issues that weren’t understood at the time

Would that be better democratically?

wintersunshine

mayonnaise wrote: »

Subsequently, she lost her majority. The message from the electorate couldn't have been clearer.

I think this was always going to be the problem. In order to actually be in a position to get Brexit across the line there would have needed to have been much more support for it - much more than 17.4 million.

ess0two

Herzlos wrote: »

Why? Do you make everyone go into a restaurant that no-one wants to use anymore and order dinner before going to the one they do want to go to?

Poor analogy and way off the mark,stick to context.

SpiderLegs

lisyloo wrote: »

Let me be open and honest and call the first one null and void due to

Deliberate lies
Illegal funding
Complex issues that weren’t understood at the time

Would that be better democratically?

You can call it whatever you want, although it would be better democratically if there was an actual legal decision that the first one was null and void, rather than subjectivity on the part of some people.

Go get a judge to declare it null and void and then we can talk.

lisyloo

SpiderLegs wrote: »

You can call it whatever you want, although it would be better democratically if there was an actual legal decision that the first one was null and void, rather than subjectivity on the part of some people.

Go get a judge to declare it null and void and then we can talk.

Oh absolutely, this is a discussion where people discuss ideas and opinions and It’s just that.

But as we are speaking legally, the act of parliament says it was advisory and not legally binding and that legally trumps whatever Cameron said or parties put in their manifestos.

We should be clear on that point right?
That people don’t have a legal right to have the winning result implementing.

My opinion is that would be a betrayal of democracy, but the legal position trumps my subjective opinion, right?

SpiderLegs

lisyloo wrote: »

Oh absolutely, this is a discussion where people discuss ideas and opinions and It’s just that.

But as we are speaking legally, the act of parliament says it was advisory and not legally binding and that legally trumps whatever Cameron said or parties put in their manifestos.

We should be clear on that point right?
That people don’t have a legal right to have the winning result implementing.

My opinion is that would be a betrayal of democracy, but the legal position trumps my subjective opinion, right?

Yes absolutely. I would be more than happy for any party to make a case that they would revoke based on the advisory nature of the referendum. I’d be a hypocrite otherwise.
They wouldn’t need to pretend we needed a second one at all then.
It would be much much easier on us all. No messing, no cost. Just do it.

JACKBLACK

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Yes absolutely. I would be more than happy for any party to make a case that they would revoke based on the advisory nature of the referendum. I’d be a hypocrite otherwise.
They wouldn’t need to pretend we needed a second one at all then.
It would be much much easier on us all. No messing, no cost. Just do it.

Amen to that.

mayonnaise

SpiderLegs wrote: »

You can call it whatever you want, although it would be better democratically if there was an actual legal decision that the first one was null and void, rather than subjectivity on the part of some people.

Go get a judge to declare it null and void and then we can talk.

Already tried, and failed, because.....yep, you guessed it.... as the referendum was not legally binding, there's nothing to be declared null and void.