Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

borntobefree

Can the cabinet revoke article 50 without HoC vote?

Just seen Liam Fox on Sky saying that might be the outcome and was wondering?

lisyloo

Covered here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47668466

The conclusion is that because enacting it needed HoC approval (see Gina Miller) then revocation would too, but it’s not totally conclusive.

Personally If we cant reach agreement (seems likely) and Eu patient for extending is exhausted (seems likely) then I think revocation is more likely than no deal.
However others do not agree and I may be biased.

Surely if we can’t decide the status quo is a safer bet than doing something drastic at a cliff edge. I have a feeling that thought will be totally split on that.

movilogo

Count me cynical but democracy isn't getting more people to believe your lies than the other sides truths.

It is - especially when lies and truths are subjective opinions. It is all about which opinion sounds more convincing to voters.

SouthLondonUser

Zuzel wrote: »

If somebody ignores the real reasons why people voted for Brexit rather than spew forth the usual "I don't wanna leave" nonsense, I am not going to applaud them for their faux indignation.

The usual Brexiters' whataboutery: shifting the focus away from points they cannot deny or challenge.

Do you deny that there were illegalities in the funding of the Leave campaign?

Do you deny that lots of fake news were spread around?

Do you deny that the £350m bus thing was a huge lie?

As per your point, I do not think many remainers deny that a big factor behind the leave vote was a feeling of frustration and anger by those that felt left behind and excluded. Any remainer who denies that is, IMHO, an idiot. But this doesn't change the fact that those reasons have little to do with the EU!

SouthLondonUser

Zuzel wrote: »

Why would I when you would obviously rather carry on ignoring the page upon page of answers in here and in multiple other bits of this forum so that you can continue your own faux indignation at those who dared to vote to leave the UK?

What multiple answers?

I am yet to receive an answer on what EU laws you can't wait to get rid of, on why the indirect appointment of EU Commissioners is less democratic than the indirect appointment of British ministers, on what bargaining power the UK would realistically have when negotiating trade deals, on what would happen to all the plants that export to the EU (car plants are being closed but that's nothing to do with Brexit because , you know, reasons...), on what would happen to the farmers that export to the EU (from memory, something like 40% of lamb or beef, can't remember exactly, gets exported to the EU - what happens to those farmers in case of no deal?)

Zuzel wrote: »

Cannot possibly think that Brexit will lead to the UK having greater independence and eventually even lead to improving the economy.
Despite current evidence showing record numbers of employed and continued growth.
leave.

What evidence, !!!!!!? Need I remind you that Brexit has NOT happened yet and most people are in a wait-and-see mode?

melanzana

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

The usual Brexiters' whataboutery: shifting the focus away from points they cannot deny or challenge.

Do you deny that there were illegalities in the funding of the Leave campaign?

Do you deny that lots of fake news were spread around?

Do you deny that the £350m bus thing was a huge lie?

As per your point, I do not think many remainers deny that a big factor behind the leave vote was a feeling of frustration and anger by those that felt left behind and excluded. Any remainer who denies that is, IMHO, an idiot. But this doesn't change the fact that those reasons have little to do with the EU!

Unfortunately those who wish to leave toot sweet have not factored in the Farage/Putin/Trump angle here. That Triumvirate is slapping their thighs with raucous laughter I reckon. No wonder. It’s all going their way.

Spiv_2

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

What evidence, !!!!!!? Need I remind you that Brexit has NOT happened yet and most people are in a wait-and-see mode?

Evidence? People who believe in Brexit-At-Any-Cost don't care about evidence. They don't care if Brits lose their jobs. They don't care if we destroy our European neighbours economies..


It's Brexit at ANY cost....it's the will of the people....blah blah blah...


Revoke Article 50. It's the only sensible thing to do. I'm sick of listening to the inane ramblings of Leavers who want to leave at any cost.

Tromking

My vote to leave was partly driven by personal grievance. As an English taxpayer and the victim of an unfair funding settlement from the UK Treasury in comparison to Scotland, I voted Leave to inflict Brexit on the populace of a pro-EU Scotland and send a message to U.K. politicians who seemingly couldn’t give a stuff about austerity blighted England.
As regards an EU law/rule I wanted rid of, I voted Leave to end the situation where EU migrants had instant access to in work benefits.

SouthLondonUser

Tromking wrote: »

My vote to leave was partly driven by personal grievance. As an English taxpayer and the victim of an unfair funding settlement from the UK Treasury in comparison to Scotland, I voted Leave to inflict Brexit on the populace of a pro-EU Scotland

Not too sure what you mean? That the Scots pay less tax and/or get more services for their taxes?

I am not an expert on Scottish matters; that may certainly be true in some areas (e.g. university tuition), but I fail to see how voting Brexit has anything to do with that.

Also, shouldn't your gripe be with English politicians, more than with the Scottish population?

It's like saying that South Londoners should vote to inflict pain on those who live north of the river because transport links are better there...

I am baffled by this childish playground-vendetta mentality!

The Scots get a better deal than the English, so you wanted to force down their throat something you knew they would be opposed to? Is that it? Or have I misunderstood?

Tromking wrote: »

and send a message to U.K. politicians who seemingly couldn’t give a stuff about austerity blighted England.
As regards an EU law/rule I wanted rid of, I voted Leave to end the situation where EU migrants had instant access to in work benefits.

And you didn't think you'd be shooting yourself in the foot in the process, of course... A bit like those working at the Japanese car plants voting for Brexit!
As for EU migrants, was it just blind rage, or an opinion informed by looking into the costs and benefits of EU migration? E.g. do you know how much benefits to EU workers cost? Can you compare that with the benefits that EU migration brings, like importing much-needed doctors and nurses whose training was paid for by other countries?

Tromking

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

Not too sure what you mean? That the Scots pay less tax and/or get more services for their taxes?

I am not an expert on Scottish matters; that may certainly be true in some areas (e.g. university tuition), but I fail to see how voting Brexit has anything to do with that.

Also, shouldn't your gripe be with English politicians, more than with the Scottish population?

It's like saying that South Londoners should vote to inflict pain on those who live north of the river because transport links are better there...

I am baffled by this childish playground-vendetta mentality!

The Scots get a better deal than the English, so you wanted to force down their throat something you knew they would be opposed to? Is that it? Or have I misunderstood?


And you didn't think you'd be shooting yourself in the foot in the process, of course... A bit like those working at the Japanese car plants voting for Brexit!
As for EU migrants, was it just blind rage, or an opinion informed by looking into the costs and benefits of EU migration? E.g. do you know how much benefits to EU workers cost? Can you compare that with the benefits that EU migration brings, like importing much-needed doctors and nurses whose training was paid for by other countries?

So many questions!
Scotland thanks to the long standing Barnet formula has a considerably more generous per capita spend than England, hence the fact the Scotland has escaped the swingeing cuts that English public services and ergo the English people have had to endure. Nothing to do with the EU as you say, but I was honest enough to admit my vote was part driven by personal grievance.
The draw of the U.K. to cheap low skilled EU migrants is well known and the instant access to in work benefits was and still is a contributory factor in that draw. It’s my view that there is an inherent unfairness in foreign EU workers being able to access potentially thousands of pounds of tax payers cash without having had a history of personal contributions.