Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Takedap

Tromking wrote: »

Historical revisionism seems to be another Remain trait.

Remain supporters don't need to rely on speculation as to what things would have been like if we hadn't joined.


We have the benefit of actually being able to look at what really did happen. Are we better off than in 1973?



Would you like to make a list of the things that you think were better before & have been directly adversely affected by EU policy?

Takedap

BikingBud wrote: »

I would suggest that we are punching above our weight but have the scope to do better. That's the role and focus we should concentrate on.

I would suggest that part of the reason we continue to punch above our weight is because of the alliances we have with Europe.


What evidence is your contention of "having the scope to do better" based on?

Moby

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/The-economic-consequences-of-Brexit.pdf


''We estimated the economic impact would be a reduction in GDP of 1.9 to 5.5%, [a fiscal hit of up to £36 bn per year]”


We know brexit will be bad economically! so move on to the politics of it....
If the UK votes for the Withdrawal Agreement it moves into the “transition arrangement”, which runs to the end of 2020, but can be extended to the end of 2022. During the transition the UK will act as a de facto member of the EU, applying all EU laws, including any laws that may be adopted in the meantime. However, the UK will have no say in EU decision making during this time!


It is during transition that the detail of the UK’s future relationship is to be negotiated. Who will do the negotiating?.....it will be the UK government, but who will be the prime minister, as May has said she will step down as soon as parliament votes to accept the Withdrawal Agreement? A hardline Brexiteer? What guarantees would Labour have that such a future prime minister would stick to the Lab/Con deal? There can be no such guarantee!
Labour and the Conservative government, deadly political and ideological rivals, negotiate a “deal” between themselves which Labour then entrusts the government to negotiate on their joint behalf with the EU!!!!! and furthermore Labour does so while not knowing who the new Tory leader will be...... Probably a hard-Brexiteer! While the Tory government will be negotiating with the EU Labour will be doing all it can to wreck the government.
You couldn’t make this stuff up.
Surely anyone who was rational would conclude this brexit needs to stop?

mayonnaise

Moby wrote: »

Surely anyone who was rational would conclude this brexit needs to stop?

61% would back Remain now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/bk8ter/new_poll_finds_61_would_back_remain_in_a_second/
The only Brexit the headbangers will get is a BINO.

Good.

lisyloo

shaggydoo wrote: »

Any Remainers considering tactical voting in the EU elections?

Or are you just going to vote for your usual tribe?

Remainers need to give Labour a bloody nose don't you think? Pile the pressure on for a second ref.

Yep.
I voted yesterday.
I like the idea of change but they are splitting the vote, so I went for the biggest outside the main two which is Lib Dem.

I will be voting tactically from now on.
My local constituency is a 2 party race,

Tromking

Takedap wrote: »

Remain supporters don't need to rely on speculation as to what things would have been like if we hadn't joined.

We have the benefit of actually being able to look at what really did happen. Are we better off than in 1973?

Would you like to make a list of the things that you think were better before & have been directly adversely affected by EU policy?

Sorry, don't do lists.
We both agree that we're better off than in 1973, we just disagree on the primary reasons for that. The success of capitalism in the West transcends our mere membership of the EU I'm afraid.

Takedap

Tromking wrote: »

Sorry, don't do lists.
We both agree that we're better off than in 1973, we just disagree on the primary reasons for that. The success of capitalism in the West transcends our mere membership of the EU I'm afraid.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the success of capitalism in the West goes hand in hand with our membership of the EU.


But hey, we'll never know because that success came while we were in so all we really know is that the success actually happened.

cogito

mayonnaise wrote: »

61% would back Remain now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/bk8ter/new_poll_finds_61_would_back_remain_in_a_second/
The only Brexit the headbangers will get is a BINO.

Good.

Unfortunately for remainers, any future referendum wouldn’t be a choice between remaining and May's deal. If you gave people a binary choice between May's deal and WTO, there might well be a 61% majority for WTO but YouGov didn't bother to ask that question. I wonder why.

All that the poll proves is that people (myself included) would rather stay in the EU than accept May's deal because it's so awful. I think people know where I stand on the matter.

lisyloo

cogito wrote: »

Unfortunately for remainers, any future referendum wouldn’t be a choice between remaining and May's deal. If you gave people a binary choice between May's deal and WTO, there might well be a 61% majority for WTO but YouGov didn't bother to ask that question. I wonder why.

All that the poll proves is that people (myself included) would rather stay in the EU than accept May's deal because it's so awful. I think people know where I stand on the matter.

You don’t know that.
Here’s the Lib Dem position and that looks like exactly what they’ve said they’ll do.

https://www.libdems.org.uk/brexit

The two options they mention are here

You should be able to choose whether the deal is the right deal for Britain's future. If it's not, then you should be able to reject it and remain in the European Union.

You don’t know any more than anyone else does about a future referendum.

mayonnaise

lisyloo wrote: »

Yep.
I voted yesterday.
I like the idea of change but they are splitting the vote, so I went for the biggest outside the main two which is Lib Dem.

I will be voting tactically from now on.
My local constituency is a 2 party race,

LD or Greens for me.
The Greens climate change standpoint is a bit too radical for me, so probably LD.