Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

SouthLondonUser

@tromking, you didn't reply to my previous post about how being the 5th largest economy is true but irrelevant: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75786158#Comment_75786158
When you have a moment, I'd be most interested in hearing your thoughts about those points.

Tromking

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

@tromking, you didn't reply to my previous post about how being the 5th largest economy is true but irrelevant: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75786158#Comment_75786158
When you have a moment, I'd be most interested in hearing your thoughts about those points.

Apologies.
I merely made the point that I was personally happy for the UK to make trade deals commensurate with it being the 5th (or 6th or 7th) largest economy. You responded in the way you did, and I have no problem with that.

Moby

New polling:-
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/qu299yz52y/KSI_190424_Europe_w.pdf
From that polling it looks like public support for brexit is collapsing. Removing DK/WV:
For Deal: 39%
Remain: 61%
or
No Deal: 39%
Remain: 61%

phillw

Tromking wrote: »

Apologies.
I merely made the point that I was personally happy for the UK to make trade deals commensurate with it being the 5th (or 6th or 7th) largest economy. You responded in the way you did, and I have no problem with that.

A lot of our economy is financial services, which you only get in trade deals if you do something like join the EU. Is that what you're suggesting?

buglawton

Takedap wrote: »

Nope. The last quarter of the last century was the start of a resurgence of British power & influence, enabled by being part of a greater entity.

It stopped the spiralling decline of the "Sick Man of Europe" & put us back on the world stage.

The UK joined the common market in 1973.
The Winter of Discontent was 1978-79. That was the time we'd become known as the sick man of Europe.
The UK's industrial base has declined every year since somewhere in the 1960s.

Anyone trying to draw a correlation between the UK joining the Common Market/EU and some sort of British 'golden age' really is on a hiding to nothing.

Thatcher modernised Britain more than joining the CM/EU did.

BikingBud

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

@tromking, you didn't reply to my previous post about how being the 5th largest economy is true but irrelevant: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75786158#Comment_75786158
When you have a moment, I'd be most interested in hearing your thoughts about those points.

So anything outside the top 4 is not worthy?

Do you apply that very same skewed and discriminatory perspective to everything in your life. What a wonderful way to deal with minorities if you cast the 5th largest aside with such contempt.

As I asked PhilllW why do you have so little faith in our abilities, as a nation, to be more self sufficient?

Why do you deride the efforts of your kin with such disdain?

Why not laud their efforts to be the 5th largest economy despite being a small island, with less than 1% of the world's population and with limited land mass and natural resources.

I would suggest that we are punching above our weight but have the scope to do better. That's the role and focus we should concentrate on.

SouthLondonUser

I never said it's not worthy (of what?) so please do not twist my words.

The point is very simple, really, and you totally avoided it: BARGAINING POWER.

The kind of trade deals a country can get depends on its bargaining power. In a world dominated by 3 large blocks, the countries inside the block have more bargaining power and can negotiate better trade deals. It's as simple as that. It may be unfair, but such is life. My personal opinion on whether this is fair or desirable is totally irrelevant, since I don't make the rules and I have no say whatsoever in the negotiations.

If you disagree, please explain.

Your comment about minorities is so pathetic I won't even dignify it with an answer.

I am not deriding the UK, I am simply stating a fact. We may laud the efforts of the 5th largest economy all we want, but that doesn't change the unfortunate truth I pointed out.

I am puzzled by your point about being self sufficient. What do you mean? We haven't been for decades, as the FCO document of the '70s pointed out back then. Should we be? What do you even mean?

The entire tone of your message proves the point made in that FCO document:

The British have long been accustomed to the belief that we play a major part in ordering the affairs of the world & that in ordering our own affairs we are beholden to none. Much of this is mere illusion. So we are dependent on others both for the effective defence of the United Kingdom and also for the commercial & financial conditions which govern our own economy. But this fact, though intellectually conceded, is not widely or deeply understood; instinctive attitudes derive from a period of greater British power.

Now, if Brexiters came clean about this, and admitted, like Boris did when he said f* business, that they are so ideologically driven that they don't really care about the consequences as long as we Brexit, it would at least be the start of a honest discussion. But that's not what we were told during the campaign. We were told we'd hold all the cards, we'd have our cake and eat it, etc etc.

shaggydoo

Any Remainers considering tactical voting in the EU elections?

Or are you just going to vote for your usual tribe?

Remainers need to give Labour a bloody nose don't you think? Pile the pressure on for a second ref.

StevieJ

shaggydoo wrote: »

Any Remainers considering tactical voting in the EU elections?

Or are you just going to vote for your usual tribe?

Remainers need to give Labour a bloody nose don't you think? Pile the pressure on for a second ref.

LibDem for me, this could be their chance at being a relevant home for my vote. I hope they can channel the Remain vote.

vivatifosi

shaggydoo wrote: »

Any Remainers considering tactical voting in the EU elections?

Or are you just going to vote for your usual tribe?

Remainers need to give Labour a bloody nose don't you think? Pile the pressure on for a second ref.

Voted Lib Dem last time and will do so again rather than voting for Labour or whatever the new lot are called.


We will probably get all sorts of MEPs as it is a form of proportional representation rather than first past the post. I still think both the Cons and Lab will get another drubbing though. After all, on this particular topic what they represent is still, 3 years on, as clear as mud.