Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

Talking about incompetence let's see if Corbyn agrees to honour Labours conference and instructs the Party to support vote for second referendum.

It easy to criticise one side or the other but the truth is they are all to blame.

Politics requires you to play out a game, Theresa May is the referee and she's been holding onto the ball until the last few minutes of the game and now they are going into extra time.

A second referendum is a political hot potato because it's been preloaded as a bad thing in peoples minds. It's going to require the right circumstances to unleash.

I have been thinking about Gina Miller the last couple of days, all that hate against her and the judges. I wonder how people feel now.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

It easy to criticise one side or the other but the truth is they are all to blame.

One side holds significantly more blame than the rest though, no?

phillw

Herzlos wrote: »

One side holds significantly more blame than the rest though, no?

It's a way of justifying behaviour. The same as you see "both leave and remain lied equally" arguments. Remain didn't lie, but leavers can't cope with the guilt of knowing they did and so they have to project. Adulterers do exactly the same thing, it's standard human psychology.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

One side holds significantly more blame than the rest though, no?

Not necessarily there have been times when all of this could have been avoided and they haven't been taken. Collectively almost the entire house is responsible they voted for referendum voted to trigger article 50. I do not agree with LibDems stance but at least they have been honest and have a mandate to behave how they are. In my opinion the other parties have been dishonest and are failing to stick to thier manifesto promises.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

Not necessarily there have been times when all of this could have been avoided and they haven't been taken.

Corbyns been offering to run the whole thing since the snap election, and May has declined. He was also excluded from a lot of meetings earlier on. Labour also doesn't have a majority to force things through. They've made plenty of suggestments and fielded amendments.

Or do you mean Labour had plenty of opportunities to agree with the Tories plans?


The only one I can give you is an SNP proposed amendment that would have killed off a no-deal Brexit, that Labour voted against for political reasons (Labour refuse to agree with or work with the SNP because the SNP destroyed their Scottish base). A Labour/SNP coalition would have done pretty well in undoing Tory damage.

This mess was caused purely by the Tories, from holding the referendum in the first place, to every subsequent screw up. It's pretty bizarre to try and pin it on Labour who've had almost nothing to do with it.

Collectively almost the entire house is responsible they voted for referendum voted to trigger article 50.

I guess. Only one party filed the motion to trigger A50, though? Labour didn't force May to do that.

I do not agree with LibDems stance but at least they have been honest and have a mandate to behave how they are. In my opinion the other parties have been dishonest and are failing to stick to thier manifesto promises.

I'd agree with that, sort of. Labour (who at least had the "jobs first brexit") and Tory (with "brexit means brexit") hold the lions share of the dishonesty wrt. the manifesto promises.
Other parties, like SNP, have been pretty faithful to theirs. But it's easy to promise stuff when you're an ignored minority.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

Corbyns been offering to run the whole thing since the snap election, and May has declined. He was also excluded from a lot of meetings earlier on. Labour also doesn't have a majority to force things through. They've made plenty of suggestments and fielded amendments.

Or do you mean Labour had plenty of opportunities to agree with the Tories plans?


The only one I can give you is an SNP proposed amendment that would have killed off a no-deal Brexit, that Labour voted against for political reasons (Labour refuse to agree with or work with the SNP because the SNP destroyed their Scottish base). A Labour/SNP coalition would have done pretty well in undoing Tory damage.

This mess was caused purely by the Tories, from holding the referendum in the first place, to every subsequent screw up. It's pretty bizarre to try and pin it on Labour who've had almost nothing to do with it.


I guess. Only one party filed the motion to trigger A50, though? Labour didn't force May to do that.






I'd agree with that, sort of. Labour (who at least had the "jobs first brexit") and Tory (with "brexit means brexit") hold the lions share of the dishonesty wrt. the manifesto promises.
Other parties, like SNP, have been pretty faithful to theirs. But it's easy to promise stuff when you're an ignored minority.

I mean by sticking to thier insistence that we join customs union and single market and Corbyn's failure to support his conference decisions leaving Labours position unclear.

Yes Cameron put forward referendum a mistake in my opinion but 544 MPs voted to hold it.

Not only did Corbyn say article 50 should be triggered he whipped the party to vote for it to be triggered and a large majority of MPs voted to trigger it.

I would put SNP in same category as LibDems.

cogito

phillw wrote: »

I know very little about either of them,

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/05/labours-manifesto-more-keynesian-marxist

I find it interesting how being a marxist could be an insult. I guess it's a useful distraction while the conservatives siphon off the last wealth for themselves.

Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people by telling poor people that other rich people are the reason that they are poor.

cogito

phillw wrote: »

It's a way of justifying behaviour. The same as you see "both leave and remain lied equally" arguments. Remain didn't lie, but leavers can't cope with the guilt of knowing they did and so they have to project.

What? Seriously?

What happened to the emergency budget, the immediate deep recession, every family losing £40000? I could go on but if you believe that remain didn't lie, you have really lost it.

mayonnaise

cogito wrote: »

What? Seriously?

What happened to the emergency budget, the immediate deep recession, every family losing £40000? I could go on but if you believe that remain didn't lie, you have really lost it.

Sigh.
Ok, once more:

Immediate deep recession :

Leaving the European Union would tip the UK into a year-long recession, with up to 820,000 jobs lost within two years, Chancellor George Osborne says.

'Leaving the European Union'. When was it exactly that we left the EU according to you?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564

Emergency Budget : You must have missed the Autumn Statement from your retirement abode in Greece?

Autumn Statement 2016: UK faces £121 billion borrowing bill as Brexit bites

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/autumn-statement-2016-uk-faces-121-billion-borrowing-bill-as-brexit-bites-a3402951.html

Every family losing £40,000? Nobody ever said such thing.

Shame on you for continuing to peddle fake news, and to top it off, telling other posters they've lost it.

Arklight

cogito wrote: »

Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich people by telling poor people that other rich people are the reason that they are poor.

The Tories. A bunch of rich people convincing a bunch of poor people that voting for a Labour party that will make life better for poor people is actually not in their interests, because rich people know best or they wouldn't be rich.