parcel force clearance fee

System

The declared value was £77. Most of it is foodstuffs, no alcohol or tobacco, and stationery. I've checked these in the past and believe them to be zero rated for vat. He also included a necklace, a bowl and a keyring for the value of a little over £30. I don't know what the postage was, but it was 1050g by sal. From Tokyo to North Wales. Forgive me, I was under the impression vat was a tax on purchasing, not on products themselves? Do I have this wrong?

System

Could I also ask, just so I understand importing and vat law. If I travelled a lot and posted my personal belongings, like my computer, to myself numerous times, would it be right for me to have to pay vat on my own property multiple times?

MEM62

tremault wrote: »

Could I also ask, just so I understand importing and vat law. If I travelled a lot and posted my personal belongings, like my computer, to myself numerous times, would it be right for me to have to pay vat on my own property multiple times?

No. That would be classified as 'personal effects' and there is a specific import regime for those that is free of duties and taxes. However, you would have to prove that you had owned the goods for at least 6 months in order for them to qualify for this.

System

Thanks, I think i've figured this out now then.
The government can't charge me for my property and they can't charge me for receiving a gift. I spoke with my brother at length about this and we surmised that if my japanese friend had bought these items in this country, he would have paid vat. what is happening is he is being charged vat for items he has not bought in the uk, but the bill is coming to me because they cannot impose this tax on him, it would be a lot more trouble to do it that way. essentially, the bill for this is my friends bill because he did not pay the customs charges beforehand when he sent this gift. as it happens, this is a shortfall in what he has paid and so they are not forcing me to pay anything. I have no contract with them. they are refusing to deliver it until the appropriate charges are paid, but it's effectively not my responsibility, I am just in a position to resolve this for my friend.
Looking at it from this perspective, this is a situation I can deal with and don't feel upset about. I just need to decide if I will tell my friend that he did not pay the necessary taxes before sending it. I won't do that to my friend though, instead i will take it upon myself to resolve this for him.


I think these distinctions are very important. imagine if on christmas day, a tax man came round to everyone's houses and handed everyone a tax demand for every gift they have received. this is how I have been feeling this past week. It's felt like a tax on kindness and that is why my emotions got so fraught. I was losing all faith in humanity.

mgdavid

tremault wrote: »

Thanks, I think i've figured this out now then.
The government can't charge me for my property and they can't charge me for receiving a gift. I spoke with my brother at length about this and we surmised that if my japanese friend had bought these items in this country, he would have paid vat. what is happening is he is being charged vat for items he has not bought in the uk, but the bill is coming to me because they cannot impose this tax on him, it would be a lot more trouble to do it that way. essentially, the bill for this is my friends bill because he did not pay the customs charges beforehand when he sent this gift. as it happens, this is a shortfall in what he has paid and so they are not forcing me to pay anything. I have no contract with them. they are refusing to deliver it until the appropriate charges are paid, but it's effectively not my responsibility, I am just in a position to resolve this for my friend.
Looking at it from this perspective, this is a situation I can deal with and don't feel upset about. I just need to decide if I will tell my friend that he did not pay the necessary taxes before sending it. I won't do that to my friend though, instead i will take it upon myself to resolve this for him.


I think these distinctions are very important. imagine if on christmas day, a tax man came round to everyone's houses and handed everyone a tax demand for every gift they have received. this is how I have been feeling this past week. It's felt like a tax on kindness and that is why my emotions got so fraught. I was losing all faith in humanity.

If thinking this way makes you happy then crack on. It doesn't change the fact that you do not understand the rules around international shipment of goods with a value over agreed limits (and neither did the person who sent it to you). You would do well to re-read the posts by MEM62 who clearly has vast experience of the rules and knows what he's talking about.
I worked in cargo imports but that was 40 years ago so I haven't assumed my knowledge still applies. However if you do want to understand how the process works then you may find the following chart of interest:
https://www.shapiro.com/blog/the-nine-reasons-that-buying-your-imports-on-cif-terms-is-too-good-to-be-true-3/


That your parcel was a gift in one sense just muddies the waters, as while a gift is not a commercial shipment, because the value exceeds a limit, it has to be treated as if it were. If the sender had been aware they could have split the items into 2 parcels such that there was nothing to pay.

martindow

tremault wrote: »

The declared value was £77. Most of it is foodstuffs, no alcohol or tobacco, and stationery. I've checked these in the past and believe them to be zero rated for vat. He also included a necklace, a bowl and a keyring for the value of a little over £30. I don't know what the postage was, but it was 1050g by sal. From Tokyo to North Wales. Forgive me, I was under the impression vat was a tax on purchasing, not on products themselves? Do I have this wrong?

VAT is a tax on purchases in the UK and also on items imported from outside the EU. Foodstuffs are complicated - some are zero rated and others are liable to 20% as are the stationery, necklace, bowl and keyring. The carriage cost is also added on to be taxed.


You might find it unreasonable but that's the system.


The best thing for your friend to do is to buy you things on-line in the UK so that VAT is paid and there are no extras to pay.

Nick_C

There are a lot of things you can buy in Japan that you won't find for sale on UK Web sites!

shaun_from_Africa

tremault wrote: »

the bill for this is my friends bill because he did not pay the customs charges beforehand when he sent this gift. as it happens, this is a shortfall in what he has paid and so they are not forcing me to pay anything. I have no contract with them. they are refusing to deliver it until the appropriate charges are paid, but it's effectively not my responsibility, I am just in a position to resolve this for my friend.

It is not your friend's bill.
Legally, you are classed as the importer of the goods (and your friend is the exporter) and any taxes or duties payable are your responsibility.


Even if your friend wanted to pay the import duties beforehand, this probably wouldn't have been possible for them to do as this requires a pre-arranged agreement with HMRC and is something that is normally only done by a few large businesses when selling to retail customers.

System

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

It is not your friend's bill.
Legally, you are classed as the importer of the goods (and your friend is the exporter) and any taxes or duties payable are your responsibility.


Even if your friend wanted to pay the import duties beforehand, this probably wouldn't have been possible for them to do as this requires a pre-arranged agreement with HMRC and is something that is normally only done by a few large businesses when selling to retail customers.

You are wrong.

I am not an importer. I am responsible for nothing. If I refuse the parcel, nobody can chase me for any money. If I were responsible for that, I would not be able to do that. I did not buy any goods, I cannot be charged vat. I have not requested any goods. I have not contacted anybody or asked anybody to bring anything into this country. Why the need to come in here and cause problems with misinformation just to hurt someone?

soolin

There is absolutely no need for childish abusive replies - I have asked the forum team to review the post in question.

Can I please remind all moneysavers that MSE expect us to remain polite, even when we disagree with other posters and do not like the advice offered.