Parking "fine" - court letter

Redx

your VRM data could be used by the claimant to identify YOU and this thread, by commonality (by checking their database by using your VRM , same with any other details like reference number , address etc, they have it all on file already and have paid for and done the DVLA check already too)

somebody in the street would not have access to that data due to the GDPR (data protection)

you do not need thse pictures for your actual defence because you wont be submitting them with it, but as evidence later down the line

those pictures will help YOU to decide how your defence will be worded , because those pictures are what bound your VRM to the parking contract on the actual date of the incident (assuming they have not been changed in the meantime)

sellwin90

Went and viewed the parking area. Inadequate lighting as mentioned so will be using that in the defence.

Can/should the following also be included in the defence:
It has an intermittent light above the parking meter.
It states that a PCN will be issued if you "fail to purchase a valid ticket, voucher or permit" however nothing is stated by if you run over your allotted time - I purchased a ticked, which was valid. I just ran over this time and makes no mention of running over that allotted time. Or is that admitting guilt ?

Redx

sellwin90 wrote: »

Went and viewed the parking area. Inadequate lighting as mentioned so will be using that in the defence.

Can/should the following also be included in the defence:
It has an intermittent light above the parking meter.

It states that a PCN will be issued if you "fail to purchase a valid ticket, voucher or permit" however nothing is stated by if you run over your allotted time -

I purchased a ticked, which was valid. I just ran over this time and makes no mention of running over that allotted time. Or is that admitting guilt ?

the BPA CoP mentions this permitted overstay etc (have you read it ?) - it wont be mentioned on any signs as its down to the BPA CoP that was in force at the time, they cannot put all of the BPA CoP on their signs so they put the logo instead


as another example, if you are on a motorway and it says 70 mph , that sign wont mention what happens if you do more than 10% over the limit, but it will be listed somewhere and the penalty notice will refer you to the law that governs it


this is the first time in this thread that you have mentioned the circumstances and the alleged overstay, its not even in their POC that you posted

so a valid ticket was purchased on the day and there was an overstay leading to the PCN that arrived ?

so how long was any alleged overstay ? (this is what a SAR would find out, unless you have the original paperwork ?)

the parking ticket that was purchased paid for the time parked, not for the time "on site" - read the BPA CoP clause #13 for the 2 grace periods allowed

so the alleged overstay was ?????????

sellwin90

sellwin90 wrote: »

VRM removed (presume that means vehicle reg). I was asked for the breakdown of costs which is why I posted it.

Having looked through the Bargepole defence threads, I'm not really sure where to start with mine. Obviously the attempt at double recovery will be in there but I'm not actually sure what my "charge" is. It doesn't say in the letter and I don't want to go on about unclear signs/poorly marked lines if that isn't what I'm charged with (it was for overstaying but it doesn't actually say that in the letter anywhere as far as I can see). I realise it would have been on one of the earlier letters that I was sent but I'm pretty sure I no longer have any of these

I mentioned here that I'm pretty sure it was for overstaying. I no longer have any of the original PCNs and like you have said it's not in the current POC that I have. I didn't get a SAR, this is the first time I've responded to any of the correspondence.

I think the overstay was for around 15 minutes, but honestly I can't remember now. I did see in one of the other threads that the BPA allows a ten minute grace either side of the ticket purchase (correct me if wrong!)

Redx

in theory its up to 10 minutes to arrive , park and purchase a ticket (its not actually defined), and a minimum of 10 minutes to leave, hence why I asked what the NTK said

send the PPC a SAR tonight by email to their DPO and get their data held on you and your vehicle

this overstay time is crucial to your defence, due to that BPA CoP

so your defence would state that the DRIVER (unless you have revealed who was driving to the PPC ? - ie:- Defendant) bought and paid for a ticket and complied with the BPA CoP rules october 2015 clause #13 on the grace period times allowed either side of the purchased ticket

your defence will have to be decided upon based on one of two scenarios , so you need to check and decide which one of these is valid for you


1) a KEEPER based defendant who is narrating the story but hiding behind POFA2012, if the CLAIMANT has failed POFA2012

OR


2) a driver based defence from the defendant who can state that they paid for a ticket , placed it on the vehicle within the first grace period and departed within the second grace period after the paid for parking time had finished, therefore, had complied with the parking contract rules and the BPA CoP rules as well,

sellwin90

I have filled in the AoS, that's all that has been responded to and I have responded to that following the dropbox link in the newbies sticky. Therefore, I don't believe I have identified myself as the driver, just the defendant ?

I've had a look on Britannia's privacy page and this is the link I found for contacting them, I guess this is the same contact for the SAR? dpt@britannia-parking.co.uk

Redx

yes , that is for the SAR

if BRIT have complied with POFA2012 then as keeper you can be deemed respoonsible and possibly liable for the charge

you have to decide on your best option for the defence, is it as keeper and narrating what a driver has told you ?

or is it better to be the aggrieved driver that paid for a ticket , abided by the rules and has no case to answer ?

its your decision, which may be helped by the reply to a SAR, if it arrives in time

but this grace period aspect is the most crucial part of this case

a judge will like to hear of a law abiding citizen that parked up, bought a ticket and places it on the vehicle , then came back when it had lapsed and made a prompt exit , abiding by the parking rules and the BPA CoP

capiche ?

sellwin90

All understood - last question, how long does a SAR usually take?

I haven't mentioned this as I sort of found it irrelevant as people can make up anything, despite this being true but the driver was late as they was helping with an elderly gentleman who had fallen over and waiting for the ambulance to arrive (driver is an off duty nurse and their duty of care to offer assistance in circumstances like this and to not ignore it.) There's obviously no proof of this and it could all be made up which is why I hadn't mentioned it but I don't know if it would be worth putting in any defence.

KeithP

sellwin90 wrote: »

All understood - last question, how long does a SAR usually take?

They have a month and won't be in any rush.

sellwin90 wrote: »

Therefore, I don't believe I have identified myself as the driver, just the defendant ?

But from the second sentence of your most recent post one could draw a different conclusion.

Redx

sellwin90 wrote: »

All understood - last question, how long does a SAR usually take?

I will start preparing two defences, one as the driver, one as the keeper, even if I do find all the legal stuff mentioned in all the drafts mind boggling!

I haven't mentioned this as I sort of found it irrelevant as people can make up anything, despite this being true but I was late as I was helping with an elderly gentleman who had fallen over and waiting for the ambulance to arrive (I'm an off duty nurse and it's my duty of care to offer assistance in circumstances like this and to not ignore it.) There's obviously no proof of this and it could all be made up which is why I hadn't mentioned it but I don't know if it would be worth putting in any defence - if I was to go with the driver that paid for a ticket defence

read any SAR, including the LEGAL BEAGLES one and you would know that its 30 DAYS TO REPLY, due to GDPR rules , so may not arrive by the defence due by date

you dont appear to understand the difference between a defence and a WS

the defence contains the legal arguments that address the POC (or lack of clarity of POC) and why you as defendant are not legally liable for the claim

the WS talks about what you as defendant know about that day, so a driver would also mention the good samaritan part to explain any delay in leaving , because you as defendant are a witness and know something either by hearsay as a third party or by actually witnessing it (mitigation) as a first person witness