For those who think we had it easy...

Pobby

Carolt and do you know why I don`t gloat?It is because of the chances that my age group were given.Free further education,a chance to have the security of home ownership,so many good things that your generation don`t have now.OK we have had high unemployment at times,Brown has plundered our pensions and those of us that can see retirement on the skyline,pretty depressing annuities.

You guys however are expected to leave further education carrying an amount of debt that is huge.You will have to make some provision for retirement as I can see the state pension coming under attack and either risking it and taking a 5+ times salary to get yourself an ex council house possibly in some chav infested area or paying some private landlord his mortgage repayment each month.

Don`t be fooled that all are getting a great salary.There are plenty earning a MacMinium wage some of whom will have to have benefits just to top up their appalling income.

The thing is,I don`t think your generation is very radical.At 16 I was a member of CND.At college we were invoved in the anti Vietnam protests.We marched against cruise missiles,racism and Thatchers poll tax.As I say,don`t listen to my generation saying how hard it was for them.I am telling you now it wasn`t.Get orgamisd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lieutenant_dan

jyonda wrote: »

So you earned 20k up until 2 years ago and now you could buy next year with a bit of cutting back?
That doesn't sound like you had a HPI problem, that sounds like you had an income/expectation problem.
Try housing a family of 4 on one income. Then you'd have something to moan about.

Nope, the problem has been that even studio flats in my area even 2 years ago were over £100k, five times the salary., out of reach.

I wouldn't have been able to house one child, let alone more. Do you not see this is the problem though? My wage was average, and average wage earners can not house themselves, let alone a family. So now you have to be a high wage earner to afford a flat for yourself, and a very high wage earner if you want to raise a family it seems.

jyonda

But 20k was not the average wage in London 2 years ago. It was more like 30k. 3.33 times salary even without a deposit.
Personally I feel 100k is poor value for a studio flat but not particularly out of reach for an average wage earner.
How you can seriously expect to buy a property in the SE on 20k with no savings?

lieutenant_dan

jyonda wrote: »

But 20k was not the average wage in London 2 years ago. It was more like 30k. 3.33 times salary even without a deposit.
Personally I feel 100k is poor value for a studio flat but not particularly out of reach for an average wage earner.
How you can seriously expect to buy a property in the SE on 20k with no savings?

the whole market is poor value for a buyer, full stop.

A lot of people in my industry are on under £30k, check out the job adverts for confirmation of this (and they're not all junior/low skilled roles either) The "average" is brought right up by the six figure earners, so this is a misleading average.

Where are you getting no savings from? That's not the case and I never said this.

Sapphire

carolt wrote: »

To start at the end first - not quite clear how modern obsession with Jordan, if true, is relevant. I am not obsessed with her. I've never met anyone who is. Are you??? Large boobs sell papers, sure, but does the name Sam Fox ring any bells? Or is that another bit of life in the 80's that you have conveniently airbrushed out of your memory?

'EMPTY VESSELS' SUCH AS JORDAN AND VICTORIA BECKHAM SEEM TO BE PLASTERED ALL OVER THE PRESS THESE DAYS - SO I ASSUME SOMEONE MUST BE INTERESTED IN THEM? WHY ARE 'REALITY' PROGRAMMES SO POPULAR (I ASSUME THEY ARE SINCE SO MANY OF THEM ARE AIRED)? I DON'T THINK ANYONE ASPIRED TO BE LIKE SAMANTHA FOX.:eek:

You are not that old - only about 15 years older than me by the sound of it - so really a bit young to be losing your memory in this way.

I'm not quite sure how you expect anyone to take seriously your claims that you struggled so hard, when you point out that you bought on a 2 and a half times multiple of a not very good salary in publishing! How many people do you think who do the equivalent job and earn the equivalent salary can afford to buy anything at all, let alone on such a fantastically low multiple? (I'll give you a clue: NONE.)

What you seem unable to grasp, due to your frankly bizarre view of young people today, based, I must assume on your own spendthrift, wastrel collection of friends and family, is that NO-ONE on an equivalent salary could buy anything remotely equivalent, no matter HOW MUCH they saved, because (a) they wouldn't be able to get a mortgage that high and (b) if some corrupt broker gave them one, they would soon die of starvation unless they decided (as sadly, many have decided was the only reasonable option) to live off credit. Hence the dreadful headlines about people paying their mortgage bills, let alone their utility bills or food bills, with credit cards.

THAT'S A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS YOU ARE MAKING ABOUT MY FAMILY AND MYSELF. WELL DONE! :T YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU HAVE A GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO OWN PROPERTY. WELL, SORRY TO DISAPPOINT YOU, BUT LIFE AIN'T LIKE THAT. :rolleyes:

Your generation did not have the option of living off credit to the same extent that ours has - but that shows the desperation rather than wastefulness of this generation. Meanwhile, it is largely those of your generation who have selfishly bankrupted this one by 'investing' in buy-to-lets, let at out at extortionate rents to those younger than them who cannot compete on an uneven playing field against these parasites who can put down hefty deposits from nominal 'equity' ie house price rises in their existing properties, can get tax relief on the mortgage interest payments (unlike owner occupiers, who have to pay their mortgages out of already taxed income) and enjoy early retirement, flash cars and foreign holidays off the backs of that same generation you have the nerve to castigate as lazy....

'DESPERATION' - DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH! NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY IS IN A DESPERATE SITUATION JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T OWN A PROPERTY. IF YOU WANT TO SEE DESPERATION, TRY VISITING SOME THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES. EVERY DAY YOU SEE OR HEAR OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WASTING MONEY ON BUYING SUCH LUXURIES AS PLASMA TVs, EXOTIC FOREIGN HOLIDAYS AND THE LIKE - AND BUYING THIS STUFF ON CREDIT JUST BECAUSE THEY FEEL THEY 'MUST' HAVE IT TO COMPETE WITH THEIR PEERS. THEY THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR SORRY STATE AND NO DOUBT EXPECT TO BE BAILED OUT BY THE GOVERNMENT (I.E. HARDWORKING TAXPAYERS).

IF YOU FEEL IT IS LARGELY THOSE OF MY GENERATION WHO HAVE 'SELFISHLY BANKRUPTED' THIS GENERATION, THEN WHY IS IT THAT ON ALL THE PROPERTY !!!!!! PROGRAMMES, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU SEE MOSTLY PEOPLE IN THEIR TWENTIES AND THIRTIES WHO ARE SPECULATING (ARROGANTLY) ON BUY-TO-LET?

I have no 'obsession' with owning my own home - I would like, however, to buy a place and as I am mid 30's, might not think this that unreasonable. Most of the people, contrary to the rubbish you spout, who post here, are not 21 year olds wanting to buy 4 bed detached houses, they are responsible adults in their late 20's and 30's wanting to buy something appropriate - something people with good jobs in previous generations would have had no problems doing at all. In fact, you provide a perfect example of just how damn EASY it was for people back in the early 80's.....

AGAIN, YOU ARE WRONG. I COULDN'T HAVE AFFORDED A PROPERTY BEFORE MY LATE TWENTIES/EARLY THIRTIES - AND NOR COULD PEOPLE WITH SIMILAR PROFESSIONS TO MINE.

And as for the nonsense about modern home owners ripping out original fittings, compared to thoughtful buyers in the 80's leaving it all in, where on earth did you get that from? I've viewed one hell of a lot of houses over the last few years, and the number of 80's crimes against taste I have seen would make your hair stand on end. Whoever thought polystyrene ceiling tiles were a good look?

AGAIN, CHECK OUT THE PROPERTY !!!!!! PROGRAMMES - YOU CAN SEE WHAT PEOPLE DO TO HOUSES ON THESE PROGRAMMES.

YOU AND I CERTAINLY SEEM TO LIVE ON DIFFERENT PLANETS, BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE OF MY OWN EYES IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE PICTURE YOU PAINT - AND YES, IN MY PROFESSION, I DO GO OUT AND MEET MANY PEOPLE.

I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO KEEP RESPONDING TO YOUR UNPLEASANT POSTS, AND THERE'S NO POINT IN ANY CASE BECAUSE WE'LL JUST END UP IN CIRCULAR ARGUMENTS. I AM SURE YOU CAN NOW ENGAGE IN DISCUSSIONS WITH PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH YOU.

carolt

Absolutely agree, Pobby. Being a bit older than many on here myself, I can remember the relative radicalisation of young people in the 80's compare to now - that does seem to have gone. lieutenant dan's point, however, is a valid one - Gordon Brown and the wider establishment have been too terrified to do anything about house prices whatever protest is raised, because their whole economic edifice has been built on a tower of debt; but when it all falls, as it surely will, whatever they do, it will chiefly be the young, who've struggled against all the odds to 'get on the ladder', who will be hurt by it.

Admittedly, it will also be the greedy BTL brigade - the Nollags of this world (wonder what that's rhyming slang for?) - who get stung, and there, I admit my heart won't bleed.

If I, and maybe others here, are more content than in the past to leave things to just take their course, it's probably because it's finally fairly clear that after years and years of prices getting ever more out of line with incomes, that position is about to be reversed. Which makes for jolly cheery reading in the papers for me.... (Unlike Running Horse, as I have not foolishly overstretched myself to buy a tiny 'property' at the peak of the market in some grotty area, I find headlines about rising interest rates and falling prices rather soothing, like a warm bath.....)

But shouldn't gloat...... Ooops, sorrry........ couldn't help it....

Just seen your post, Sapphire - absolutely agree with you about the parallel universe thing - that can clearly be the only logical explanation. Much prefer your 80's to be honest - sounds lovely - unmaterialistic, no Sam Fox on EVERYTHING, everyone caring and into traditional decor and staying in saving money - sounds lovely. Just didn't happen, that's all.

None of your answers in any way answers mine - I fail to see why the fact that some people buy plasma tv's means it's acceptable that other people have no choice but to pay rent that eats up all their disposable income, in order to have a roof over their head at all. It's very easy for you to scoff, having never faced anything remotely comparable yourself and having had it easy yourself by nothing more than an accident of birth. Hard work, my ar5e.....

Without your well-considered posts, I suspect this thread will quietly wither, as if you look closely, you will discover it is full of nothing but a string of replies to you from people livid at the nonsense you type. Without your vital input, you will find that yes, actually we all agree.

Couldn't be because we're all right, could it?

Sapphire

Pobby wrote: »

As I say,don`t listen to my generation saying how hard it was for them.I am telling you now it wasn`t.Get orgamisd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure which decade, exactly, you are talking about, but my brother, for exampe, who was a student doing a Masters degree in the seventies was starving in a garrett at the time. We didn't have wealthy parents to help us (children of post-war political exiles who lost everything), and I can assure you that we did have a difficult time financially. Things were tough for some people - and very tough for some, like my parents. Perhaps different people had different experiences?

Grogg

This makes such depressing reading of life in the 1980s. So much unemployment, depression and anger.

fc123

have just waded through this WHOLE thread!!!!! Loved the graph.

Briefly, buying our 1st house was a massive struggle in 1989. Cost £60k we earnt £18k approx.

Each generation has to face difficulties but different to the previous ones....hear my dad chat about the bombs in 1944 when he was 12 and "the neighbours got bombed in the night and all died" and he went to school as normal.
For some people it is never going to be easy if you don't inherit anything or have help from family for deposits.

The biggest problem now is there is no council housing or housing association property for regular couples starting out in life..............perhaps SOME of the generation that benefitted from this bought it at discount and used the equity to plough into BTL.

EdInvestor

The Seventies weren't exactly comfy either....