For those who think we had it easy...

Running_Horse

lieutenant_dan wrote: »

Wouldn't worry about the likes of running horse mean machine.

I challenged him in another thread to come up with equivalent figures for now as to when he bought in the late 80s, and guess what, he comes up short too in today's climate. Equivalent £20k salary, one bed flat in his area £80k, the two bed place he bought £110k.

He claimed he could still do a non standard (over 3 and a half times salary/mortgage multiple) 4 or 5 times salary mortgage, I pointed out he'd have nothing left from his wages and would be in the red every month after all outgoings taken into consideration. That's assuming he was able to save enough from his £20k salary for a deposit in the first place, if he wasn't stuck having to live in highly priced rental accomodation which would consume over 50% of his salary.

And that disregards any rate increases, falling house prices etc. He said when interest rates were high, most of his salary went on his mortgage payments in the 80s, well that was a temporary situation. That would be the NORM every single month if he was to buy in this climate (and the norm at best, as there's little prospect interest rates would go in favour now), he'd have nothing left to live on and would gradually accumulate debt.

Sums it all up when he said his mortgage payment is currently £200 per month!!!

You challenged me to prove it is possible to get on the housing ladder on average salary, and I proved it was possible to do it in Kent on less than average salary, for those unlike yourself who can be bothered to save any deposit. The repayments were not more than wages. I also said it would be unwise to do so, but that I personally would do it again.

And the £200 is not my current mortgage, it is my old mortgage after years of overpayments and a redundancy payment. My mortgage in the 80s was very similar to the recent one I have taken out on a new house, the effects of very high interest rates back then. Your problem Dan is not that prices are too high, but that you are earning a low wage, and didn't bother to save when you earned more. You can't be much of a financial advisor if you only earn £17,500 in the south east, but I am flattered you have taken my advice to downsize to accommodation more commensurate with your low income.

carolt

Sapphire wrote: »

It's very difficult to answer all the scattered responses to my post, but at the time when I bought my first flat (in the very early eighties) I was already in my late twenties. I was working in publishing on a reasonable salary, though certainly not the highest. Most of the people I knew lived in rented accomodation for many years before they even thought of buying a place (the same as happens on the Continent). There certainly wasn't this obsession with property, like there is now.

None of the people I knew ripped out everything the instant they moved into a property like people do these days - thus destroying many period homes, not to mention the effect all the waste has on the environment. They would make do with painting and perhaps changing kitchen applicances, and buying furniture, often secondhand, etc.

I do think you have a very distorted, one-sided view of how people lived twenty years ago. :cool:

I don't know anyone who idolized past entertainers in quite the same way as celebrities like Jordan, the American millionaires' sluttish daughter and others of her ilk who have achieved absolutely nothing apart from their own self-gratification and have no talent are idolized today.

To start at the end first - not quite clear how modern obsession with Jordan, if true, is relevant. I am not obsessed with her. I've never met anyone who is. Are you??? Large boobs sell papers, sure, but does the name Sam Fox ring any bells? Or is that another bit of life in the 80's that you have conveniently airbrushed out of your memory?

You are not that old - only about 15 years older than me by the sound of it - so really a bit young to be losing your memory in this way.

I'm not quite sure how you expect anyone to take seriously your claims that you struggled so hard, when you point out that you bought on a 2 and a half times multiple of a not very good salary in publishing! How many people do you think who do the equivalent job and earn the equivalent salary can afford to buy anything at all, let alone on such a fantastically low multiple? (I'll give you a clue: NONE.)

What you seem unable to grasp, due to your frankly bizarre view of young people today, based, I must assume on your own spendthrift, wastrel collection of friends and family, is that NO-ONE on an equivalent salary could buy anything remotely equivalent, no matter HOW MUCH they saved, because (a) they wouldn't be able to get a mortgage that high and (b) if some corrupt broker gave them one, they would soon die of starvation unless they decided (as sadly, many have decided was the only reasonable option) to live off credit. Hence the dreadful headlines about people paying their mortgage bills, let alone their utility bills or food bills, with credit cards.

Your generation did not have the option of living off credit to the same extent that ours has - but that shows the desperation rather than wastefulness of this generation. Meanwhile, it is largely those of your generation who have selfishly bankrupted this one by 'investing' in buy-to-lets, let at out at extortionate rents to those younger than them who cannot compete on an uneven playing field against these parasites who can put down hefty deposits from nominal 'equity' ie house price rises in their existing properties, can get tax relief on the mortgage interest payments (unlike owner occupiers, who have to pay their mortgages out of already taxed income) and enjoy early retirement, flash cars and foreign holidays off the backs of that same generation you have the nerve to castigate as lazy....

I have no 'obsession' with owning my own home - I would like, however, to buy a place and as I am mid 30's, might not think this that unreasonable. Most of the people, contrary to the rubbish you spout, who post here, are not 21 year olds wanting to buy 4 bed detached houses, they are responsible adults in their late 20's and 30's wanting to buy something appropriate - something people with good jobs in previous generations would have had no problems doing at all. In fact, you provide a perfect example of just how damn EASY it was for people back in the early 80's.....

And as for the nonsense about modern home owners ripping out original fittings, compared to thoughtful buyers in the 80's leaving it all in, where on earth did you get that from? I've viewed one hell of a lot of houses over the last few years, and the number of 80's crimes against taste I have seen would make your hair stand on end. Whoever thought polystyrene ceiling tiles were a good look?

Pobby

Carolt,good post and in the main I agree.There is so much tosh talked about house buying and I feel it is a real shame that younger folk,unlike we were,are frozen out of the market.Also I am ashamed at some peoples almost gloating attitude toward the folk who would like to buy.

Nollag for example,what a complete knobber,he says he likes to rile those that would like to see a fall in house prices.Selfish git as he is a home owner.Although I am bought and paid for I for one wished that house prices hadn`t gone up the way they have.You folk that want to buy would have had the opportunity and we would have been able,through savings,to sold here and afforded for cash that bungalow by the sea.

I have youngsters in my family and they would struggle in the London area to rent.The thought of them buying is just crazy.All this will have a future impact on this country which will be negative.

I would hate to be a renter knowing that my security of tenure was for 6 months.What good is that?Also there is a big chance that the landlord hasn`t a clue what he is doing and could easily be re poed.

Just one thing,and this is not patronising you younger folk but i don`t see you doing much about it.Get together,organise,lobby Parliament,hound your MPs,march,get press coverage,oh for goodness sake do something rather than post how bad it all is on websites.However,believe me,I value your grievance.

lieutenant_dan

Running_Horse wrote: »

You challenged me to prove it is possible to get on the housing ladder on average salary, and I proved it was possible to do it in Kent on less than average salary, for those unlike yourself who can be bothered to save any deposit. The repayments were not more than wages. I also said it would be unwise to do so, but that I personally would do it again.

And the £200 is not my current mortgage, it is my old mortgage after years of overpayments and a redundancy payment. My mortgage in the 80s was very similar to the recent one I have taken out on a new house, the effects of very high interest rates back then. Your problem Dan is not that prices are too high, but that you are earning a low wage, and didn't bother to save when you earned more. You can't be much of a financial advisor if you only earn £17,500 in the south east, but I am flattered you have taken my advice to downsize to accommodation more commensurate with your low income.

Love it running horse, keep up the good work!

You proved nothing of the sort re the equivalent comparisons in today's market, but I digress.

For the record I said I've more than doubled my £20k salary in the last couple of years, never said I was a financial advisor, and I will be able to buy in a year if i downsize and if market conditions feel right about buying at this time, debateable with the current stagnation. If I don't downsize, I'll be able to buy in 2 years, again if market prices feel right. So maybe the debate shouldn't have been whether I should rush to buy, but whether I should continue to lose a large chunk of money to renting.

And who said I've saved nothing? Not me, that's for sure. I did explain I would need 10 not 5% deposit being self employed, hence the shortfall, but make stuff up if it makes you feel good. You've been doing it all through this debate after all.

Oh and finally I must take you to task with one other point. You said when you were on your coach trip in the original post that you felt "physically sick" at the interest rate rises announced over the radio. Why did you feel that way? Seeing as you're such a well rounded person who has a healthy perspective on things I'm a little surprised at that, what with people "starving to death" at that exact moment elsewhere in the World, so what's potentially losing your home or having all your salary swallowed up by mortgage payments in comparison to real problems such as that eh?

carolt

Pobby wrote: »

Just one thing,and this is not patronising you younger folk but i don`t see you doing much about it.Get together,organise,lobby Parliament,hound your MPs,march,get press coverage,oh for goodness sake do something rather than post how bad it all is on websites.

Well said! I think this needs to be said so much more. I think in my case, i post here partly as a (very small) way of making my voice heard and possibly explaining to those who don't face these issues quite how difficult and frustrating they are, whilst offering support to those who do.

The sad truth is most of us are so busy grafting just to survive we don't have time to lobby, march etc. But you are absolutely right.

Suggestions anyone?

Really appreciate your support Pobby - you could easily just sit outside this and ignore it or actually gloat and taunt such as the delightfull Nollag - but you don't. Cheers..... :A

Running_Horse

lieutenant_dan wrote: »

Love it running horse, keep up the good work!

You proved nothing of the sort re the equivalent comparisons in today's market, but I digress.

For the record I said I've more than doubled my £20k salary in the last couple of years, never said I was a financial advisor, and I will be able to buy in a year if i downsize and if market conditions feel right about buying at this time, debateable with the current stagnation. If I don't downsize, I'll be able to buy in 2 years, again if market prices feel right. So maybe the debate shouldn't have been whether I should rush to buy, but whether I should continue to lose a large chunk of money to renting.

Oh and finally I must take you to task with one other point. You said when you were on your coach trip in the original post that you felt "physically sick" at the interest rate rises announced over the radio. Why did you feel that way? Seeing as you're such a well rounded person who has a healthy perspective on things I'm a little surprised at that, what with people "starving to death" at that exact moment elsewhere in the World, so what's potentially losing your home or having all your salary swallowed up by mortgage payments in comparison to real problems such as that eh?

Thought you said you were ignoring me. Strange way of showing it by posting about me on a discussion started by me. You need to find a new obsession. How about saving some money for a deposit?

I used to be exactly like you Dan, always moaning about how life was so unfair because I didn't have this or that, until someone gave me some advice that changed my whole outlook. I was having my usual moan and they said "life isn't fair". Simple really. When you grasp that fact, you also realise that life is as good you make it.

I wish you all the best in your efforts to become a homeowner, but do everyone a favour and stop effing whining. Jesus wept.

lieutenant_dan

carolt wrote: »

Well said! I think this needs to be said so much more. I think in my case, i post here partly as a (very small) way of making my voice heard and possibly explaining to those who don't face these issues quite how difficult and frustrating they are, whilst offering support to those who do.

The sad truth is most of us are so busy grafting just to survive we don't have time to lobby, march etc. But you are absolutely right.

Suggestions anyone?

Really appreciate your support Pobby - you could easily just sit outside this and ignore it or actually gloat and taunt such as the delightfull Nollag - but you don't. Cheers..... :A

Problem with this is the people you're potentially lobbying are likely to be sitting in overinflated houses, so it's against their personal interests for the prices to come down considerably for the greater social good.

That's the problem we face now, and if prices do come down considerably, the people who face the problems will be shifted to those who bought towards the peak of the market, overstretched, and face huge amounts of negative equity.

Either way, it seems we have problems ahead.

mr.broderick

God meanmachine we've missed you, where the hell have you been.
Please stay and add a bit of normality back to the forum.
There's nothing more satisfying than one of your educated posts followed by a little thankyou from lynzpower, absolute poetry..

lieutenant_dan

Running_Horse wrote: »

Thought you said you were ignoring me. Strange way of showing it by posting about me on a discussion started by me. You need to find a new obsession. How about saving some money for a deposit?

I used to be exactly like you Dan, always moaning about how life was so unfair because I didn't have this or that, until someone gave me some advice that changed my whole outlook. I was having my usual moan and they said "life isn't fair". Simple really. When you grasp that fact, you also realise that life is as good you make it.

I wish you all the best in your efforts to become a homeowner, but do everyone a favour and stop effing whining. Jesus wept.

Sorry, you're right, I meant to say disregard your opinion and it came out instead as ignore.

Don't see anyone else moaning about my "whining", but I agree it's pointless taking this further as you yet again sidestep all the valid points and questions I've raised and just retort with a few playground jibes.

jyonda

lieutenant_dan wrote: »

For the record I said I've more than doubled my £20k salary in the last couple of years, never said I was a financial advisor, and I will be able to buy in a year if i downsize and if market conditions feel right about buying at this time, debateable with the current stagnation. If I don't downsize, I'll be able to buy in 2 years, again if market prices feel right.

So you earned 20k up until 2 years ago and now you could buy next year with a bit of cutting back?
That doesn't sound like you had a HPI problem, that sounds like you had an income/expectation problem.
Try housing a family of 4 on one income. Then you'd have something to moan about.