CEL CCJ - Request for help with applying to have CCJ set aside

Catan

Hello - and thanks in advance for all the helpful threads here.

In brief, I'm another one to have recently discovered I have a CCJ in my name due to a PCN (Parking Charge Notice) from Civil Enforcement Ltd., where all of the correspondence had apparently been going to a previous address. I've been going over the forums here over the past couple of days and plan to try to get the CCJ set aside, but came across all this info pretty late on in my research and now have some concerns. I really could do with a little more help with the appeal/setting aside/defence processes, if possible, so here's the story!

Full details/timeline to get started:

• I applied for credit (for the first and only time) on November 30th 2018, to buy a new iPhone via financing, and was rejected.
• I began looking into my credit history with Experian later that day on Nov 30th.
• I found out about the CCJ via an Experian credit check on December 1st 2018, and chased down the details of the CCJ the same day, with a TrustOnline search for my past three addresses.
• The Date of Judgement is the 29th August 2018, under my previous address. I moved out of that previous address on 8th August 2016 to my current one.
• The previous address was my family home, and so my dad had a mail redirect set up to his new home (he moved out on the same day) for a year, but unfortunately it ended shortly before the first (alleged) contact from CEL was sent. The reason they had (allegedly) sent their correspondence to the old address is that I hadn't updated my V5C with the DVLA after moving (the move was stressful, it was due to my parents' divorce).
• On Dec 3rd (after the weekend where they were closed) I rang the court and used the information provided by them to contact CEL that same day (reading these forums I now wish I hadn't!), who gave me some basic details of the PCN: My vehicle was parked in an Authorised Vehicles Only spot on 19th November 2017 for 51 minutes, outside of a Hotel. They said the initial fine was £60, which went up to £100 after not being paid within 14 days, and this has 'gradually grown' to the now total £347. They informed me that they got the information on my vehicle from the DVLA.
• I spoke to the DVLA on the 3rd again to ask them about this - they said they wouldn't give out my info (I think this is just the person on the phone being mistaken) but I could check with them what records they had on file for my vehicle and when just in case. I sent off a V888 form to them, which takes up to 14 days to come back with details of my addresses where the vehicle was registered - this confirmed it was registered at my previous address at the time. (I had actually updated the address in September, completely unaware of this whole issue, so if I'd not been an idiot and just remembered to do this a month earlier I could have contested it much earlier. Typical.)

Sorry for the long info dump there but just wanted to get it all out of the way.

I'm aware that I need to do two things: first try to get it set aside, by proving that I a) didn't know about the PCN or receive any contact of any kind; and b) that I have some kind of defence/argument against the initial PCN. And second, if I do get it set aside, then use that defence to actually fight the £347 charge itself (and the £255 fee for the appeal!).

In terms of help, I'm concerned about a couple of things, and could also do with some pointers on a couple of things too. First the concerns:

I'm concerned that:

1) I've left it too long to appeal from initially finding out about the CCJ around 1 month ago. It's taken this long so far for a few reasons. It took time to figure out just what the consequences of a CCJ are (seriously nasty shock as my partner and I were planning on applying for a mortgage soon!) and what your options actually are upon finding out you have one all of a sudden; it took time to receive confirmation from the DVLA via that V888 form as to what address they had registered; I was away for a week (booked well in advance!) in early December; I've been trying to contact the citizens advice bureau, the Hotel in question, and CEL (won't try CEL again now I've read up here, or the CAB...) for more info, but all have been closed over the Christmas period. The Hotel itself is now closed for refurbishment until May and under new ownership with now management in place.

Have I left it too long?! Seriously hoping I can prove I acted promptly given all the chasing up I did on the day I found out about it, and the few days following.

2) I've made a mistake by calling CEL. Stupidly, I asked if they would agree to set aside the CCJ by mutual consent if I were to pay it (I read this was an option elsewhere online), but they obviously declined. I'm hoping that I can still argue they were in the wrong and that I have a case, and haven't 'forfeited' that right by asking them this over the phone! I honestly can't recall if I acknowledged that I was the driver of the car on that date over the phone - I'm pretty sure I didn't, not sure why I would have. Also hoping that won't prevent me from using the 'Registered Keeper vs Driver' argument that my defence would likely rest on.

Providing I haven't already ruined my chances here, the pointers I need help with are:

3) Finding a good template for a Witness Statement to submit with my N255 form.

4) Most importantly: deciding on my defence. I'm not sure whether to go with the 'I don't recall who was driving/parking there on that date as it was 13 months ago' argument that seems to have worked well for others, or to argue that whoever parked there would have had permission - If I do recall correctly, whoever parked the car there would have had verbal permission, as it would have been for my partner's work (she exhibits at various wedding fairs at hotels around the area) and it likely would have been for loading/unloading exhibit materials. The issue is, I can't find a way to track down the Hotel owners/managers as I mentioned above, and can't guarantee the new owners would back us up given it's changed hands since the original incident.

Sorry again for the massive post. Hopefully all the info is useful/relevant! Thank you so much in advance and again for all the amazing posts here about the topic. Any help on any of those issues is enormously appreciated! I'm pretty nervous...

TL/DR:

1. Have I left it too long to appeal, even taking into account the reasons given above?
2. Have I blown it by speaking to CEL on the phone briefly?
3. Where can I find a good template for a Witness Statement to work from?
4. Do I go for the Keeper-not-driver argument or the 'the driver would have had permission' argument?

Thanks so much! (And happy new year!)

Redx

this is not a legal forum (its a consumer help forum) and most volunteers here (including me) have no legal training , so here is my advice as a long term regular here

a) read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, post #2 especially, for advice on the £255 set aside process etc

b) use the drop down forum search box and use suitable search words like £255 CEL set aside to find similar threads and especially anyone who has been through it and/or is further along than you are, you are not alone, there have been dozens of threads like yours over the last few years due to this credit clamping so loom for examples from 2018

c) read their defences and WS etc and also read what people like BARGEPOLE an Coupon-mad have said about this and the advice they have given

less than a handful of regulars here know about this subject and/or have legal training in this subject, because this forum is about parking charges, not the court claim system (read my signature) - so dont expect miracles, just common sense replies and advice

1) NO, I do not think so but you need to act fast to prevent that argument completely

2) I do not think so as no contract was formed, it was only an enquiry, nothing more

3) the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, post #2 , plus other similar threads, although a WS is written by you as only you know your facts, so there is no "template" as such, because each WS is bespoke (there is no "one size fits all"

4) depends on what you find out about the initial pcn and its wording and timescales, so send the DPO at CEL a SAR by email asap and get those details in the 30 day timescale

personally, I would start by thinking about the KEEPER was not liable angle using POFA2012, plus if the keeper was not the driver , SAY SO


and you should have emailed your SAR request to the DVLA to get the info you required, but hey ho

Catan

Thanks very much Redx! Appreciate the quick reply.

Had given the NEWBIES page a good look over (it's a biggun!) but I'll go back over and make some more notes - and write up the WS myself. Good point that there's no one size fits all.

Will do re: 4) - but a quick question, what 30-day timescale do you mean? Do I only have 30 days from finding out about the CCJ to send off my appeal?

Thanks!

Redx

I AM NOT SURE THAT YOU WILL BE "APPEALING", AFAIK you are applying for a set aside, not "appealing"


The 30 days I am referring to is the new GDPR 2018 rules and a SAR has this in its wording, so look for those details etc (it wasnt about your set aside timescale)

look at the GDPR 2018 FIGHTBACK thread by Coupon-mad for help on this, and the legal beagles SAR template as your starter

you have a lot to learn, yes its complicated and you are fighting on several fronts, I condensed it down into a short reply but several topics in that reply and your questions are huge and debatable topics in their own right


you must bone up on

SET ASIDE

DEFENCE AGAINST THE ORIGINAL PCN

SAR under the GDPR 2018

WITNESS STATEMENTS

your EVIDENCE

etc

getting the data from CEL using the SAR will help with you understanding the original POC and NTK etc, plus any future strategy

but dont hang about with any of the starters, so SAR and set aside and paying the £255 upfront are paramount

its not as if you are the first, we see this every week on here and over on pepipoo forums

but you are trying to run a marathon without knowing what 100 metres is like, whiclst also learning how to make a gourmet starter , main course and pudding from a choice of 10 cookbooks at the same time

Catan

Thanks!

Will get straight to it on sending an SAR to CEL's DPO (so many acronyms...), as soon as I've read up on the best way to do so.

And sorry, you're right - applying for a Set Aside, not 'appealing'.

Final question before I go back and read up some more - and appreciate you're not a legal expert as you say - but do you (or anyone reading) know if sending an email/letter/calling the court that issued the CCJ is worthwhile, just to inform them that I'm working on an application to have the CCJ set aside? And if so do you know of any good examples/threads where people have done so?

Just wondering if it's a help in stopping some bailiffs turning up or something ridiculous, and imagine it's at least another paper trail to show that I'm actively fighting it and not trying to dodge paying, while I wait for a reply to the SAR etc.

Also, just on the off chance, anyone who does a quick drive-by of this post and knows of any other good threads on those things kindly listed above by Redx (Set Aside, Defence against PCN, SAR, WS and Evidence), if you could drop a link that would be incredibly useful! Trying my best to swat up fast.

Currently using:

• NEWBIES thread (section 2)
• CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD have filed a CCJ for old address
• CCJ gone to old address from parking fine has resulted in rejected mortgage
• Not advising Change of Registered Keeper to PCM
• Set Aside CCJ - Advice on Defence Statement please
• CEL _ Court Witness Statement Help
• Mystery CCJ from CEL - Advice please
• Proceedings issued, NTK invalid, Gladstones/Millennium refusing to respond (page 5)
• Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled!

Reckon I can now glean all I need to from those, but any other ideas/references are welcome. (Sorry, I'm a new user so it's not letting me post URLs to those directly!).

Thanks Redx / all!

KeithP

You really need a six point Draft Order.

I often refer posters in your position to this:

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74830861#post74830861

Catan

Thanks KeithP.

My understanding (so far) is that I need to do the following:

- Submit an SAR to CEL, to get any specific wording/details from the PCN.
- Write up a Witness Statement, including any evidence I have - this is where I argue that the CCJ should be Set Aside? (because I haven't received any contact about the PCN from CEL, etc.)
- Write up a Skeleton Argument - this is where I argue (in relatively brief terms) that the original PCN itself should be struck off, ahead of a full hearing/trial on that matter *if* the CCJ is Set Aside first of all. (because I am the registered keeper but not necessarily the driver, etc.)
- Write up a Draft Order - this is a draft of the order the judge would give to strike off the original PCN itself, at that post-Setting Aside hearing.

Is that correct?

KeithP

That's a good understanding.

Just that I would say that what you call a 'Skeleton Argument' I would call a 'Draft Defence'.

The Draft Defence would in simplified terms show that you had a reasonable prospect of successfully defending the case had it been originally heard.

Catan

Thanks KeithP! Will update this thread with what I plan to send as an SAR to CEL, and the rest after.

KeithP

An important point, probably already mentioned, is that having discovered the County Court Judgment, you act quickly towards getting it set aside.

Catan

Okay, here's what I have drafted for an SAR to Civil Enforcement Ltd. - any feedback greatly appreciated! (I'm on a very tight time frame here now it's so late in the day for the application to Set Aside, so I'll likely be sending this this evening regardless.)

Dear Sir or Madam,

Subject access request ( Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) )

Name: XXX
Address: XXX
Former Address: XXX
Registered owner of vehicle, license plate: XXX
PCN number: XXX

Please supply all of the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself. This includes, but is not limited to:

All photos taken, relating to the PCN in question.
A close-up photograph of the signs related to the PCN, on the day of the PCN in question.
A full breakdown of the total current charge of the PCN in question.
Evidence that, if the total current charge of the PCN in question includes a £60 fee to a debt collector, that said debt collector has been paid said amount.
All emails, letters, and correspondence sent and received to myself, including any relating to the PCN in question.
All data held and all evidence relied upon in relation to the PCN in question.
A full copy of the PCN itself, and any Note(s) to Keeper in relation to myself and the PCN in question.
A list of all PCNs you consider to be outstanding against myself and/or the vehicle in question.

Attached is a photograph of my current Driving Licence as confirmation of my identity. Please dispose of this data responsibly once it has been used for that purpose; I do not grant permission for this data to be stored. If you need any more data from me to confirm my identity please let me know as soon as possible. It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.

Yours faithfully

XXX