Woodford Patient Capital

Prism

itwasntme001 wrote: »

How much of the main fund is invested in WPCT?

Unsure exactly but lets take BenevolentAI. The main fund has about a 200m holding in it by my reckoning which is all going to be sold over the next few weeks. Thats almost a 10% allocation of WPCT.

itwasntme001

ColdIron wrote: »

In the current circumstances that's the sort of question I would ask myself before parting with my cash

Wont make a difference to my investment decision. I had some spare cash that i was willing to take a punt with. It is a punt on how much the market is pricing in the liquidations that are to come.

tin586

At the time the toxic (erm, unquoted holdings) were moved into WPCT, the Equity Income fund took shares in WPCT worth 9% of market cap.

Brave indeed to be diving in so soon!

Reaper

OMG I've just read the fund's best performing stock is "Industrial Heat" who are trying to make cold fusion reactors assisted by and based on the work by debunked scientist Dr Rossi.

It's hokum. Unless he is being very risky and clever and riding a brief wave with the intention of selling before it collapses and becomes worthless this is a toxic share. That's almost 6% of the fund value.

More worrying it suggests his stock picking skills are not what they were and his appetite for risk is getting out of hand.

EDIT: After reading more it is worse than I thought. Industrial Heat and Rossi had a falling out 2016/17, Rossi tried to sue them for not paying him for his controversial eCat reactors and they responded saying after three years of trying they had been unable to get them to work. Lots more background on this train wreck on the Wikipedia pages:
Rossi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Rossi_(entrepreneur)
e-Cat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer

Quite how this unlisted stock has been judged to have risen in value is a mystery to me. If it were possible to short an unlisted share I would short this one.

jamei305

He built his track-record on picking sectors and large-cap income stocks. Why anyone thinks he has skills in gambling on unlisted tech companies is a mystery. I'd rather buy an AIM tracker

fun4everyone

Everyone talks about the "discount" available on WPCT. The discount to the NAV.

My question is who values the NAV? It's a bunch of unlisted and tough to value companies. IMO this cannot be a fair and independent valuation? It's not really a "discount" if the actual price is fantasy. Am I missing something and the NAV is fairly and independently priced?

masonic

Prism wrote: »

Brave buying this at the moment just for the discount. The NAV is likely to drop significantly over the next few weeks as the main fund starts selling its holdings in the same shares. I imagine there are already a bunch of short positions on some of the holdings.

itwasntme001 wrote: »

How much of the main fund is invested in WPCT?

Though the situation is far from clear, Following the equity swap with WPCT, there may not be significant overlap between the 'illiquid' holdings retained in WEIF and those currently held indirectly through WPCT. I also wouldn't rule out a disposal of those other 'illiquid' holdings through a similar mechanism as used to reduce them before.

All there is at the moment is a lot of speculation and many unknowns. I considered topping up my holding at just shy of 62p, but couldn't bring myself to click execute.

masonic

fun4everyone wrote: »

My question is who values the NAV? It's a bunch of unlisted and tough to value companies. IMO this cannot be a fair and independent valuation? It's not really a "discount" if the actual price is fantasy. Am I missing something and the NAV is fairly and independently priced?

The valuation of each asset held will likely be independent, but "fair" is highly questionable. The valuations will almost certainly include an element of hope value. Valuations will not be updated daily, and perhaps will be several months old in some cases.

fun4everyone

masonic wrote: »

The valuation of each asset held will likely be independent, but fair is highly questionable. It will almost certainly include an element of hope value. Valuations will not be updated daily, and perhaps will be several months old in some cases.

Thanks. The total nav does appear to update daily, but I certainly don't trust it.

masonic

fun4everyone wrote: »

Thanks. The total nav does appear to update daily, but I certainly don't trust it.

Yes, there will be some companies that are valued frequently, but a long tail of more obscure ones that won't be.