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Compelled to go to other platform to buy ticket
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I can think of many stations where there is only 1 TVM for 2 platforms and anybody wanting to buy a ticket for a train from the platform without the machine has to cross over to purchase a ticket.
My home station (which is a busy one) only has people to physically sell a ticket on one side, which inconveniently is the wrong side for trains to London and even more inconveniently the side further from my house.
If the machines aren’t working and I’m working in central London, I have to walk to do so, luckily the ticket inspectors are nice and will let me through the barrier to save more time.
I can think of at least 2 stations (either side of my home one) where there’s is only one platform to buy tickets and requiring a walk over a footbridge. It may be an inconvenience to OP, but that is the requirement of wishing to travel to/from those stations.
If he/she doesn’t have a ticket, there is always the possibility of a fine if this is more acceptable to the OP.💙💛 💔0 -
ok but the point im driving at is
1. a passenger is obliged to have a ticket if they had the "opportunity" to purchase one prior to travel
2. the rules regard the provision of a ticket office or machine on a platform other than the one from which the passenger is travelling as constituting an "opportunity".
but i contend that
1. if there is no route entirely within railway premises between the departing platform and the ticket sales point, the railway rules are attempting to oblige the passenger to behave in a particular way on land that is outside their jurisdiction, which they cannot.
1. given this, the circumstances described (ticket sales point on other platform, no path on railway land between the two platforms) cannot constitute an "opportunity" to purchase a ticket, and the passenger cannot be penalised for boarding a train without one.
similarly, it is already the case that, because a railway company cannot oblige anyone to own a smartphone or computer and an internet connection, online sales do not constitute an "opportunity".
The railway rules are not compelling you to behave in a particular way on non-railway land. (What a peculiar notion?). They simply want you to buy a ticket. Having to walk from one platform to another (even if having to leave the station) to buy a ticket cannot reasonably be said to be compelling you to behave in a particular way.
Of course, as one poster has pointed out, if it means walking a mile from one platform to the other you might be able to argue this does not constitute an opportunity. (Come on - tell us - how far is it between the two platforms?).
If this question has real significance for you, I would ask here https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prosecutions.152/0 -
ok but the point im driving at is
1. a passenger is obliged to have a ticket if they had the "opportunity" to purchase one prior to travel
2. the rules regard the provision of a ticket office or machine on a platform other than the one from which the passenger is travelling as constituting an "opportunity".
but i contend that
1. if there is no route entirely within railway premises between the departing platform and the ticket sales point, the railway rules are attempting to oblige the passenger to behave in a particular way on land that is outside their jurisdiction, which they cannot.
1. given this, the circumstances described (ticket sales point on other platform, no path on railway land between the two platforms) cannot constitute an "opportunity" to purchase a ticket, and the passenger cannot be penalised for boarding a train without one.
similarly, it is already the case that, because a railway company cannot oblige anyone to own a smartphone or computer and an internet connection, online sales do not constitute an "opportunity".
I would contend that because there is no prohibition to prevent the passenger from leaving railway land to purchase a ticket then they do have opportunity. (There was nothing to prevent you buying a ticket.) If the only route available were over private land, your arguement might hold, but where the route is open to the public I don't think it does.
If you were disabled and the route to the ticket machine was impossible to access due to your disability, I think you might also have a case.The comments I post are my personal opinion. While I try to check everything is correct before posting, I can and do make mistakes, so always try to check official information sources before relying on my posts.0 -
This sounds remarkably like a precursor to some Freeman of the Land mumbo jumbo, maybe if your ticket doesn't have your real name on it or the ticket machine isn't in an Admiralty court or some such that would help this case?
If not, buy the ticket on your phone if you don't want to walk to the other platform.Sam Vimes' Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness:
People are rich because they spend less money. A poor man buys $10 boots that last a season or two before he's walking in wet shoes and has to buy another pair. A rich man buys $50 boots that are made better and give him 10 years of dry feet. The poor man has spent $100 over those 10 years and still has wet feet.
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This sounds remarkably like a precursor to some Freeman of the Land mumbo jumbo, maybe if your ticket doesn't have your real name on it or the ticket machine isn't in an Admiralty court or some such that would help this case?
Brings back memories of a similar post of 'can I force ticket office to accept cash for my ticket' that went on for ages - it eludes me in searches now but caused much amusement0 -
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But come on, if you know there's a ticket machine, why would it matter (either practically or legally) whether you have to go outside the station to access it?
What justifiable reason could you have for not buying a ticket when you know the facility is there?[/QUOTE]
If trained members of staff are often incapable of understanding the complexities of the ticketing system then why should a member of public who may have never travelled by train be expected to use the same or inferior technology to buy the cheapest fare available for the exact services they require?
If Railways want to punish those who regularly wish to buy off a ''professional'' rather than a machine then they should consider employing staff on unmanned stations with TVM's on in teaching and aiding passengers on how to use those machines.
But that would mean losing out on the lucrative punishment revenue gained.0 -
How do you do that, out of interest? Is there a nationwide app, or do you go to the train operator's website...?
You can buy tickets on a site like Trainline and send them to their phone app to display the ticket - it gives you a QR code which works on barriers and the ticket scanners that guards have. Great for last minute stuff or if you don't want to have to go collect tickets or pay for posting.
Don't forget to activate the ticket on the day of travel to avoid a fine (it takes one click) - I just do it when getting on the train as my local station doesn't have barriers and rarely has guards but I normally need the ticket live to get to the next train.Sam Vimes' Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness:
People are rich because they spend less money. A poor man buys $10 boots that last a season or two before he's walking in wet shoes and has to buy another pair. A rich man buys $50 boots that are made better and give him 10 years of dry feet. The poor man has spent $100 over those 10 years and still has wet feet.
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You can buy tickets on a site like Trainline and send them to their phone app to display the ticket - it gives you a QR code which works on barriers and the ticket scanners that guards have. Great for last minute stuff or if you don't want to have to go collect tickets or pay for posting.
Don't forget to activate the ticket on the day of travel to avoid a fine (it takes one click) - I just do it when getting on the train as my local station doesn't have barriers and rarely has guards but I normally need the ticket live to get to the next train.0 -
I'm not sure all rail companies use this system, but in any case buy direct from the rail company rather than trainline (unless you want to pay an extra fee).
Or just walk to the other platform and avoid it
I'm not sure if any other firms have apps similar to this as I only tend to use electric tickets for travelling for work so it's all on expenses and involves using different train firms but it looks like Virgin do have one, perhaps others do.Sam Vimes' Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness:
People are rich because they spend less money. A poor man buys $10 boots that last a season or two before he's walking in wet shoes and has to buy another pair. A rich man buys $50 boots that are made better and give him 10 years of dry feet. The poor man has spent $100 over those 10 years and still has wet feet.
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