PIN codes, and remembering them!

r.jenkins36

I seem to have several credit/debit cards as well as security codes on 2 mobile phones. It's a nightmare trying to remember all the PIN codes!! and I recall Martin saying that it was poor security to change all your PIN codes to be the same. I came across a solution though, and having tried it I can thoroughly recommend it. Like all the best ideas, its dead easy to use!

I found it at https://www.chipnpin.org (its advertised by the side of the M1). Hope this helps you as much as it has me. ;D

Galstonian

How does this work? As far as I can see you store all your PINs on their card and have an extra pin to get access to them all. Surely this is just as much a security risk as using the same pin or writing them all down? If someone gets hold of your "access pin" and card they get access to them all in exactly the same way as if someone got all your cards and you used the same PIN.
Do you actually have it yet?

Woby_Tide

so rather than needing 10 pin codes to access 10 credit/debit cards it's just 1 pin code, then you'll have them all to hand?

The website seemed a bit sparse of information about what it actually was and how it worked? It looks very similar to a function built into a lot of mobilephones(nokia) for one

cloud_dog

I'm not going to recommend this suggestion ??? but..........

I can remember numbers by the pattern on the number key pad, either for pin or for card numbers, so that's how I do it (not every pin / card I hold but certainly the frequent ones). I also record all this info in a file on my PC that is password protected and the data encrypted and restricted to a user name (so thats how I do it).

My dear old ma on the otherhand knows what a PC is but that's as far as it goes. For her we have written the pin numbers down (accept that there is a risk here - but that's life; bear with me......).

How we did this was to get her to choose/understand a pattern/sequence of numbers. For example you decide that the first, second, last, and second from last numbers of a 15 digit number is the pin number and you always follow that pattern sequence for all your different pin numbers.

You could do it so that every third number is a pin number. You could do it so that the middle number (of an odd number of digits) is a pin number and have four sets of numbers. How anyone is going to figure that out beats me (I'm sure some einstein could give us the stats on that).

So there's some idea's the bottom line is that with so many pin, password, dates, places of interest required for security (certainly for online activities) you will end up with the information recorded somewhere.

cloud_dog

MSE_Martin

I've had a look at the chipnpin thingy and asked them to send me one to have a look. If it's nice and useful, then i'll put it in the tip. Most people won't need it, but for those who do - sounds good - i've also asked that if i do it, can moneysavers have 20% off and they've said yes. So that's cool

cafenervosa_2

I have around 5 different 4 digit pin codes in my head.  I don't know how I remember them but I just do.  I find if I try to think about the numbers to much then it confuses me totally and then i've no chance.  They come to me naturally so thats good most times.  Just the odd times my mind goes blank at the cashpoint, when that happens i've no chance.  One time I guessed 3 times wrong and it kept my card  :o

cafenervosa_2

I've had a look at the chipnpin thingy and asked them to send me one to have a look.  If it's nice and useful, then i'll put it in the tip.  Most people won't need it, but for those who do - sounds good - i've also asked that if i do it, can moneysavers have 20% off and they've said yes.  So that's cool

I agree with you it sounds an interesting idea

Fatboy_NSS

I agree with Galstonian, this device doesn't seem any more secure than using the same PIN for all your cards.

One worrying aspect is that the PIN on your card will be disabled if it's entered 3 times incorrectly. However this device doesn't seem to have this feature, so it appears that if it was stolen or lost the person finding it could try as many PINs as they liked until it let them in. If this happened the customer could be seen as liable by the banks, as they had stored the PIN with the cards.

Just a thought, but cards are covered in numbers (card number, account number, etc). How about setting your PIN to, say, the last 4 digits of the card number. Then your PIN is different on every card, it's written right in front of you so you can't forget it, but you haven't written it down so there's no way you could be liable for the losses if your cards get stolen.

Richard@chipnpin

You seem to be missing the main point about chipnpin.

Fact: Most people have 3,4.....10 credit/debit cards, plus a mobile phone with a lock code, digital locks at work etc. That's a lot of PINs to remember!!

Most people will only remember 2 or 3 PINs, but that's OK at the moment because your signature is the validation for using a credit/debit card.

BUT, as from January 2005, the retailer will bear the risk if a transaction is accepted on signature, and later turns out to be fraudulent. So from January 2005 most retailers will INSIST on you entering your PIN to authorise the transaction for any purchase. Thus, for any cards that you don't readily know the PIN, cut them up! They will be useless to you after January. So now you have only 1 or 2 credit/debit cards. That's the point about chipnpin.

The PINSAFE system is simple, secure (according to the banks), and guaranteed to recall your PIN. And it's always with the relevant card.

Martin has kindly agreed to road test PINSAFE for me and will no doubt let you know his opinion soon.

Hope this helps meantime.

Richard@chipnpin

COS

Why not choose four of the numbers from the front of each card as it acts as a separate perminent reminder to you only.

Richard@chipnpin

Fine, if you want to change the PIN code for every card, and if the bank gives you that facility.
But what about digital locks, alarm codes, car security systems etc. Yes you can generally change the PIN but what a pain.
And the numbers on the front of the card method seem a bit obvious. Don't forget, there may well be someone standing behind you watching you go through a PIN code transaction and reading the numbers you enter (that is a recognised method of theft from ATMs). If they subsequently steal your wallet with all your cards in, it won't take a rocket scientist to work out what method you have used.....for all your cards. Bingo, they have all your PINs now!
Here's a challenge, I'll bet anyone £50 that if I give them a PINSAFE AND the PIN for that card, they will not be able to work out the PIN for any other card which uses the same system. Any takers e-mail me from the website, and have your £50 ready to pay me.