PIN codes, and remembering them!

Galstonian

but I will say the following:

Looking at that website, it looks decidedly dodgy. The pages are all titled "Untitled Document" (a schoolboy error). There are no actual photos of the product or descriptions of what it is or how it works. The site uses Paypal (very amateurish) and the only contact is a PO box address and an email address - not very reassuring. The whole site seems to remind me of those dodgy adverts in the back of tabloid magazines. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, let alone hand over my credit card number.

Be warned.

...also, just noticed that the person who started this thread has only posted 3 times on the site. Reading the first post of this thread again, I get the impression that  they may be infact a "close friend" of the operator of the chipnpin site, if you get my drift...

Looking at the profiles of rj and that of Richard@chopnpin there are some striking similarities, I wonder if the webmaster would like to compare them and see if they are one and the same person?

I am also concerned but that is because PINsafe is I believe a registered trademark for a completely different product.

I could be wrong; I'm sure Martin will be able to sniff anything untoward out and let us know though.

juno

Odds of me guessing your PIN code blind?  417:1

Odds of me guessing your PINSAFE code blind? 14,950:1

I've very intrigued as to where you got those odds from!

Odds of guessing first number: 1 in 10 (there's 10 possible numbers to choose from, including zero)

Odds of guessing second number: 1 in 10

Odds of guessing third number: 1 in 10

Odds of guessing fourth number: 1 in 10 (well, probably ever so slightly less as it depends on the number before in some instances, eg if the first 3 numbers were 123 you know it can't be 4 as that isn't allowed)

So, to find the combined probability of guessing the PIN number, we mulitply those odds together as a fraction.

1/10 * 1/10 * 1/10 * 1/10 = 1/10000!

That certainly isn't the same as your figure!

If you know something about a person, you can guess what they might use (special dates etc), but if you're talking about a randomcard thief they probably won't have that knowledge!

student100

Mmm. A bit of private investigation leads to mixed results:

From the Internic WHOIS search on the chipnpin.org domain:

Registrant Name:R Jenkins
Registrant Organization:RJ Interim Management Limited
Registrant Street1:36 ********* Road
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Nottingham
Registrant State/Province:Notts
Registrant Postal Code:NG10 ***
Registrant Country:GB
Registrant Phone:+44.**********
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:+44.**********
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:chipnpin@********.com

(I removed the personal info but it's available freely on the Internic site, right here.)

I'm quite sure that the user rj who started this thread is the website owner, R Jenkins. So he is breaking the forum rules if nothing else.

Looking up "RJ INTERIM MANAGEMENT LIMITED" at Companies House shows that at least it is a registered company, incorportated January 2003.


I'd still be wary of buying this product.

Woby_Tide

and the original rj who registered comes from Nottingham, who'd have thought it....

COS

Moderator action:- Comment removed for legal reasons.

Robert_Sterling_3

Never mind remembering pin numbers I can't even remember where I live.  I just looked at my "Location" but I am still not sure.   ???

Richard@chipnpin

What a suspicious lot you are!
Anyone who buys PINSAFE is protected by distance selling legislation, as specified in T&C on the website and can cancel their order and request a refund. Anyone who has a complaint has recourse under the sale of Goods Act. There is nothing hidden about the ownership of chipnpin which is public and accountable and governed by UK legislation. PO Boxes are not secret, anyone may apply for the address of the owner if you have a valid reason. I choose not to put my business address on the web - I get enough junk mail as it is!
Juno, you clearly don't understand statistics because you have to divide 10,000 by factorial 4 to get the odds for a 4 digit number. By your maths the odds against guessing the PINSAFE key are 358,800:1...which they aren't, and the odds against winning the lottery are 10,068,347,520:1 which they aren't, they just feel like it!! (They are actually just short of 14,000,000:1)
I find it amazing that there are so many experts with such strong opinions, who won't let facts cloud the issue. If you guys are typical of the site readers (and I don't believe you are) I am quite surprised.
Student 100 - we aren't all as clever as you being able to reel off dozens of PIN numbers. You clearly don't need PINSAFE. But to slag PayPal is to slag a very large and very successful organisation as being amateurish. Your choice of course, but somewhat naive. Didn't IBM say something similar about Bill Gates; British Airways about Virgin; IBM about DEC; DEC about SUN etc?
Galstonian - I hold the copyright for PINSAFE going back to 1995. If there is someone else using it please let me know. Either I have made a mistake which needs immediate correction (though I did due diligence) or someone else has.
Regarding the government spending money...no, they aren't. They are just responsible for the legislation. As regards your question about loss if a transaction is made with a correct PIN but is fraudulent, the only way it could happen is if someone had your card and knew (or very luckily guessed) your PIN. My understanding is that if you have advised the Credit card company that your card has been lost/stolen or the security compromised, the credit/debit card company bears the loss, as it does now. If you have not taken reasonable precaution, you bear the loss, as it is now. The change in rules is that if the retailer accepts a signature from 2005, HE bears the risk. (Currently the bank does.) Your comment about the attraction of the postal service is sadly true - according to today's papers, there are many new cards going missing in a last ditch run of theft.
Robert, thank you for bring a little humour back to this chat!!

Richard@chipnpin

COS

I seem to have several credit/debit cards as well as security codes on 2 mobile phones. It's a nightmare trying to remember all the PIN codes!! and I recall Martin saying that it was poor security to change all your PIN codes to be the same.  I came across a solution though, and having tried it I can thoroughly recommend it.  Like all the best ideas, its dead easy to use!  

I found it at https://www.chipnpin.org (its advertised by the side of the M1).  Hope this helps you as much as it has me.   ;D

This is why we are suspicous when R Jenkins/Richard@chipnpin place post like this, conning people by not admitting you have a vested interest from the start , not so bright as you have lost your cred, I think I read that some where on the M1 ;D
>:(

Galstonian

I'm just going to lock this discussion.

There seem to be valid concerns about the means being used to promote this item, the site rules clearly state:

Posting links for personal gain is strictly prohibited, except in the 'referrers' section. Those connected to a company being discussed MUST state that connection within their post.

I believe this has been abused.

I also believe a complany called SwivelTechnlogies owns the PINsafe trademark.