Banks will be required to introduce SMS payment veriification

telemarks

Butch_Dingle wrote: »

Very easy solution: change to a mobile network which gives you voice & texts over wifi calling such as EE, Three, BT and possibly a few others. In addition to being able to receive OTPs from FirstDirect, you will also be able to make & receive calls/texts to family, friends etc. Great eh?! Of course you will need a compatible handset (most decent ones are), however I would think this is a price worth paying for getting a full signal at home.

As I think others have said, what about your existing mobile contract? Should First direct be paying compensation for the early exit fees from mobile contracts?
Having said that, IF there is a reliable text over WiFi mobile providor, then I might consider then next time? However why should I have to jump through that hoop?
There are lots of other options First Direct could consider that are MUCH easier ... what about a online banking secure message via App or Web??


But back to SMS. In our case its a mute point, we live in hamlet of 10 houses in a deep valley, I can climb 1/2 mile out of the valley in any direction and get excellent signal, but as its such a small blackspot I doubt any mobile company will ever cover it.
We had a Voda SureSignal (well 3 actually), but it was a very unreliable. Two boxes blew, all had frequent disconnects, and required box resets. Family mobile numbers were often lost on reset, requiring Voda webpage access to set back up, then several hours for these to sync back to the Voda suresignal box. After many hours with Voda support they eventually said that Sure Signal was only for people with reliable Broadband connection, which as were several mile from the exchange, ours isn't. But again why would I want to go through that pain again?

Butch_Dingle wrote: »

It worth noting even IF we had signal, as its my wifes mobile number on our joint account (she likes the daily text statements), I would never get a OTP for any purchases online..
Originally posted by telemarks

In that case ask your wife to use the FD app to check her balance and use your mobile # for OTP. It literally takes 10-20 seconds to fire up the FD smartphone app and view the balance.

So if I put my mobile number on our First Direct Account, then my wife can't make online payments using her cards ...

I've asked First Direct about how SMS passwords work with joint accounts ... and am waiting for a reply

Butch_Dingle

telemarks wrote: »

I now have two problems ...

1. We have no mobile signal at home, hence this will never work for us.
2. I've asked to use the email option, however as my email address is the one registered to our joint account .. my wife won't be able to use cards online. And we have no idea how long this email will last

It worth noting even IF we had signal, as its my wifes mobile number on our joint account (she likes the daily text statements), I would never get a OTP for any purchases online.
.

First of all - OTP or not - no bank is going to let EVERY transaction go through without further verification, it doesn't work like that. If anything,I think FD are the least 'paranoid' when it comes to letting transactions go through (in my experience). On my FD credit card i've made plenty of transactions over the last few weeks (mainly on Amazon) and not had a single OTP code sent to me - so they clearly aren't doing this for every transaction.

However in your case, until you can get wifi calling sorted out it might be a good idea to take out a CC with a different provider such as Barclaycard who don't use OTP (AFAIK).

Also i fail to understand why you repeatedly keep saying "jumping through hoops" to get a working mobile signal. You're not, all you need is a sim card , a mobile phone and a working wifi connection...hardly rocket science. Also to re-iterate, you are free to make & receive calls to whoever you want once you have a working signal indoors through wifi calling, I would have thought this alone would be far more useful than just being able to receive OTP texts from FD. Don't you think being able to use a mobile indoors in the case of a genuine life & death emergency is worth "jumping through hoops"?

The technology is out there, make use of it! :T

telemarks

Butch_Dingle wrote: »

First of all - OTP or not - no bank is going to let EVERY transaction go through without further verification, it doesn't work like that. If anything,I think FD are the least 'paranoid' when it comes to letting transactions go through (in my experience). On my FD credit card i've made plenty of transactions over the last few weeks (mainly on Amazon) and not had a single OTP code sent to me - so they clearly aren't doing this for every transaction.

I've tried my First Direct card online once recently, and got blocked at the OTP so for me its 100%. It appears experiences can vary.



But I do agree, One Time Passwords (OTP) are coming, to all banks. But it is up to the bank how they implement them. In the case of First direct it currently is:

1. SMS to the one mobile number stored on the account (doesn't work for joint accounts, or if no mobile/signal)
2. Ring First Direct every time ... "However, we might not be able to do this in the long term". I may as well ring the shop direct, at least I can haggle that way.
3. "we're currently able to send the OTP to your email address. However, we might not be able to do this in the long term" (doesn't work for joint accounts)
4. "We are hoping to provide a way of receiving the OTP via our App, but this is still in development and we may not be able to do so."

Seems to me like First Direct have set off down a path very quickly without thinking it through. Which in my experience, is unusual for them.

The only explanation I have had is " there are commercial reasons for the change, and we will not be reverting back to Verified by Visa". "Commercial reasons" sounds like cost savings to me, and it is a shame they are putting these above customer service. Again, unlike my past experience of First Direct.



In the meantime I will carry on using Paypal and Halifax online and guess I will be gradually winding down FD .

Butch_Dingle wrote: »

However in your case, until you can get wifi calling sorted out it might be a good idea to take out a CC with a different provider such as Barclaycard who don't use OTP (AFAIK).

Also i fail to understand why you repeatedly keep saying "jumping through hoops" to get a working mobile signal. You're not, all you need is a sim card , a mobile phone and a working wifi connection...hardly rocket science. Also to re-iterate, you are free to make & receive calls to whoever you want once you have a working signal indoors through wifi calling, I would have thought this alone would be far more useful than just being able to receive OTP texts from FD. Don't you think being able to use a mobile indoors in the case of a genuine life & death emergency is worth "jumping through hoops"?

The technology is out there, make use of it! :T

Time to come clean .. I have WiFi calling. However in my experience it does not work that well. Sometimes the SMS come through instantly, sometime the next morning on WiFi, sometime the next time I get a mobile signal.
I sometimes have WiFi calling with BT, but according to them, I shouldn't have. The terms for it are very tight:
http://home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/phones-tablets/what-is-wi-fi-calling-new-bt-mobile-service-will-boost-your-smartphone-signal-11364261945076

So only on certain iPhone and Samsung (and maybe others) if bought direct from BT.

For us all our phones are bought Sim free (MSE obviously).

• My Nokia 5 says "Wifi calling=Device unknown" in My profile and sometimes has WiFi calling enabled in its Status bar
• My wifes Xiaomi never has WiFi calling
• My sons Nokia 7+ always has WiFi calling

I think if a device type that is sold by BT, they cannot tell if it was bought from them or not, hence they enable WiFi calling ... sometimes.



Hence this is why say "jumping through hoops". To get SMS's here I either:

• have a 1/2 mile walk,
• pray to the connectivity gods,
• or have subscribe to certain mobile operators and possibly as well have certain high end phones.

Looks like vaulting through round objects to me.

telemarks

I now have two problems ...

1. We have no mobile signal at home, hence this will never work for us.
2. ...

Originally posted by telemarks

[Also i fail to understand why you repeatedly keep saying "jumping through hoops" to get a working mobile signal. You're not, all you need is a sim card , a mobile phone and a working wifi connection...hardly rocket science. Also to re-iterate, you are free to make & receive calls to whoever you want once you have a working signal indoors through wifi calling, I would have thought this alone would be far more useful than just being able to receive OTP texts from FD. Don't you think being able to use a mobile indoors in the case of a genuine life & death emergency is worth "jumping through hoops"?
The technology is out there, make use of it! :T Originally posted by Butch_Dingle

mgdavid wrote: »

Agree wholeheartedly with all the above; it's so sad there still exist technophobes and people that don't like change, it must be so limiting.
Of course there is a simple alternative for the OP - don't do banking from home, go to a branch like you always used to

I do love it when people jump to conclusions (scroll up)
For reference I've made a career from mobile, with over a decade experience at a senior level mostly in Nokia. So my knowledge is past, current and also several years into the future. I did have a good chuckle at been accused of been a "technophobe"


PS. Our local Midland branch closed last year

Butch_Dingle

telemarks wrote: »

Time to come clean .. I have WiFi calling. However in my experience it does not work that well. Sometimes the SMS come through instantly, sometime the next morning on WiFi, sometime the next time I get a mobile signal.
I sometimes have WiFi calling with BT, but according to them, I shouldn't have.

In that case, your issues will most likely be down to poor wifi. Definitely worth getting a better router for wifi as the BT supplied one isn't that great for wifi. State your budget and I can recommend one which is almost guaranteed to improve your wifi. Alternatively you might need a wifi mesh system but that will cost more so you should only go for that if an alternative router doesn't cure your wifi issues.

masonic

mgdavid wrote: »

Agree wholeheartedly with all the above; it's so sad there still exist technophobes and people that don't like change, it must be so limiting.
Of course there is a simple alternative for the OP - don't do banking from home, go to a branch like you always used to

SMS is so last century. SMS based OTP has been deprecated in favour of newer technologies. The technophobes seem to be the banks who seem reluctant to embrace new technologies such as TOTP and authenticator apps. SMS is the telephony equivalent of the cheque.

telemarks

Butch_Dingle wrote: »

In that case, your issues will most likely be down to poor wifi.

Unlikely, as its not only home Wifi, the same intermittent Wifi calling happens on other WiFi networks also.
I'm sure the issue is I didn't buy my Nokia from BT, and hence shouldn't be getting WiFi calling ever, but sometimes BT can't work that out :rotfl:



For background I run a mesh of 3 Netgear routers at home

telemarks

masonic wrote: »

SMS is so last century. SMS based OTP has been deprecated in favour of newer technologies. The technophobes seem to be the banks who seem reluctant to embrace new technologies such as TOTP and authenticator apps. SMS is the telephony equivalent of the cheque.

Agreed.

I was interested when First Direct said "We are hoping to provide a way of receiving the OTP via our App, but this is still in development and we may not be able to do so."
I wonder if the issue is regulatory? As unless its legacy issues, I'd suspect its unlikely to be technical. Maybe however the issue is dev. resorce, or financial? Who knows.

Butch_Dingle

telemarks wrote: »

Unlikely, as its not only home Wifi, the same intermittent Wifi calling happens on other WiFi networks also.
I'm sure the issue is I didn't buy my Nokia from BT, and hence shouldn't be getting WiFi calling ever, but sometimes BT can't work that out :rotfl:
For background I run a mesh of 3 Netgear routers at home

Ah ok. When indoors what happens if you put the phone in airplane mode but with wifi still on? Does that bring up BT wifi calling? On my work iphone SE - on BT Business mobile - if i put it in airplane mode indoors, it goes onto wifi calling mode permanently. Otherwise wifi calling only kicks in once the signal drops below a certain level.

As a last resort might be worth investing in a cheap iphone, eg iphone 6 as iOS devices (6 or newer) will work with wifi calling irrespective of where you bought the handset from.

telemarks

Butch_Dingle wrote: »

Ah ok. When indoors what happens if you put the phone in airplane mode but with wifi still on? Does that bring up BT wifi calling? On my work iphone SE - on BT Business mobile - if i put it in airplane mode indoors, it goes onto wifi calling mode permanently. Otherwise wifi calling only kicks in once the signal drops below a certain level.

Airplane mode on Android disables WiFi, and (maybe a bug in 8.0) manual Wifi switch does not renable it in Airplane mode.:cool:
I'll experiment more with switching off/on Mobile Network, as it seems that WiFi calling does come up about a 1min after I re-enable it.
However this doesn't help me much as if I try to do an online purchase the SMS with OTP will go to my Wifes Xiaomi :mad:

Butch_Dingle wrote: »

As a last resort might be worth investing in a cheap iphone, eg iphone 6 as iOS devices (6 or newer) will work with wifi calling irrespective of where you bought the handset from.

Sounds like leaping through circular things again .. and doesn't solve the joint account issue. But I do admire your persistence and patience:T


"The answer" is simply to use PayPal more, and vote with my feet at the bank.