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EE - WARNING - Underhanded Practises November 2018
Legacy_user
Posts: 0 Newbie
After being a customer of EE for over five years, EE decided in July 2018 they were going to remove any loyalty discount I had after I raised a complaint about a lack of broadband service and disruption to the broadband service I received.
Initially EE told me they would look into the service problem after I raised a complaint and I was told that a supervisor would call me back. After not hearing from them for over a week I called them and was told no one would have called me, as my complaint was opened and closed on the same telephone call despite my request for them not to close the complaint until I was called back and the matter resolved. Closing of a complaint without it being logged is a common 'solution' amongst companies these days to the complaints statistics problem and how they investigate and handle complaints. If you don't actually log a complaint, the statistics for your complaints looks much better at the annual review. This is something EE has been fined for in the past. How do you know if they are not going to log a complaint or want to close the one you just opened? They ask you something like..."Are you satisfied with how I handled your call today?". Because if you are 'satisfied' with how that specific agent handled your call, even if you are dissatisfied with the general service you received or are complaining about, you have nothing to complain about as you said you were satisfied....and your complaint is closed, or never logged.
In that same follow up call, EE then told me they were going to increase the monthly price I was paying for my data plan by 67%. Yes that's (Sixty seven percent) just incase you thought that was a typo. When I asked if they were going to take into consideration the five years I had been loyal customer, they said no and I could go and renegotiate with the retentions team if I wanted to. Of course when speaking to the retentions team they weren't interested in the slightest way and offered nothing, not a penny of discount.
The initial reason given for this price increase was that I was "no longer in contract". I was also told by a sepatate member of staff that "EE review its contracts on an annual basis" and "this was the reason for the price increase" This seemed odd as I'd been on a 30 day rolling contract for over five years and this had never happened before in previous years and I had never been informed by EE of such a review or price increase. There is the annual price increase to keep up with inflation which is reasonable and expected but that doesn't usually amount to a 67% price increase.
When speaking to the EE Executive department I was given a different reason. They told me that EE had recently repriced all its price plans and there was "nothing the Executive department could do". The Executive department also disputed my 'loyalty' as a customer in their words and also the discount I was receiving. They stated it was not part of my price plan. In reality, the discount I was reciving up to that point, had been offered two years earlier, as part of a new price plan as they could not upgrade me as I was not on a phone contract. It was clearly stated that the plan would be 'discounted' if I accepted the new terms a conditions.
The Executive Department then refused to discuss the matter further and terminated the call. After this call they issued a deadlock letter. This tactic then allowed them to say "they could no longer discuss the matter with me as 'deadlock' had been reached". This then forced me to either accept the 67% price increase, leave or complain to the Ombudsman.
EE also stated in their deadlock letter that 'all previous offers, no longer stand' even though they had made no previous offers at all and refused to discuss the matter outright Quiet crafty and deceitful of them. Luckily EE customer service provided me with two emails confirming my joining date, the five years I had been a 'loyal customer', the price plan I was on and the price I was paying so this helped a lot with my case when I went to the Ombudsman.
At this point I must praise EE customer services who were honest and upfront and provided the evidence I needed for my case. They were a complete contrast to the EE Exectutive Department who seemed to want to intentionally derail any discussion and avoid any comprimise or mutual agreement. Customer services also advised me that all calls were recorded so should the Ombudsman wish to request those calls they could and they would hear exactly what was discussed, and what was not (what EE didn't offer as they suggested in their deadlock letter). This proved very beneficial later on as customer services could clearly see everything about my EE agreement which the Execrutive Department was denying or pretending did not exist. So 'thank you EE customer services'. Although it took several months to be investigated, the Ombudsman found my complaint to be reasonable and found in my favour. I was refunded the 'over charges' and compensated for my unreasonable and underhanded treatment by EE.
Things you should take away from my experience:
(1). There is no such thing as 'loyalty' in business. When sales teams talk to you about 'customer loyalty', what they actually mean is you are legally shackled to a company. Whereas true loyalty is when you can leave when ever you want and choose stay. If you are the latter like me, a truly loyal customer, there is no reward. Companies just take your money and you are offered no 'incentives, discounts or rewards' for your loyalty unless you negotiate a discount or reward. If you are tied to a company through legal contract, you then get 'rewarded' as a 'loyal customer' because you can't leave when you want to. You are in servitude to be clear. It's important to understand this and understand the illusion and intentional misinterpretation of the meaning of 'loyalty' that companies create to keep your business.
(2). Always have a pen and paper ready to hand 'Before' you ring any company. Always write a date, exact time and the name of the person you spoke to. Make notes.
(3). Be civilised to customer services. They aren't the enemy. They are the medium between you and the CEO, Directors and Owners. They don't make policy or provide slow useless computers... Board members do. Yes, sometimes customer services are 'not clued up' and sometimes under trained, but for the most part they can be an ally and do want to help. Remember, they are in your shoes when they leave work. They still have to deal with the Phone company and Energy company like you so get them on board and help them to help you...while you still can. It won't belong before the computer really does say "No!" and they remove the Human from customer services. Then you're really *#!!*#$!!ed.
(4). Always get a paper or electronic copy of your contract. Many people sign up to contracts over the phone as new customers or current customers renewing or upgrading their contracts. What ever deal you accept with a mobile phone provider or any one for that matter, even family and friends, always get a written or electronic copy of your agreement or contract. Later you may need to rely on it.
(5). When you see a newspaper headline 'Telecoms firm fined £6 million' stop and ask yourself, "What percentage is that of their profits after tax?" EE were recently (November 2018) fined £6.3 million pounds for over charging, as was the situation in my case. Although the fine was very welcoming in my eyes, it's a drop in the ocean when you realise it's a little over 1% (yes one percent...not a typo) of their annual profits after tax...they made £600 million profit this year. In simplified terms this is like fining a person £10 when there monthly income after tax is £1000. The price of a packet of cigarettes. Although £6 million is a lot to most of us, and will undoubtedly anger greedy Chief Executives, Bonus hunting Board members and Share holders, it's a trivial amount. If I was to take £100 out of your monthly £1000 take home you'd think twice about doing what ever you did wrong that caused me to fine you. Ofcom...if you're reading, that's a 10% fine. That hits them where it hurts...their pocket. You'll note OfCom have previously fined EE for 'over charging' and 'billing issues' and 'misleading customers'. Perhaps it's about time the regulator spoke a language that CEO's and Directors understand. The larger the fine, the better the understanding I find, especially in business.
(6). Don't winge and moan and then accept your chosen fate. Do something about it. Be Positive. Be Proactive... Negotiate and then if that fails Complain to the Ombudsman or Regulator. Yes it takes time. But that time you take writing that hour long email costs them money. It also increases your chances of a positive result. After all, you have a chance at winning the Lottery if you buy a ticket but you are gauranteed not to win if you don't bother buying a ticket at all. Choose...either sink or swim.
The Facts: (...or if you prefer... The 'misunderstandings that were your fault... The 'Computer errors' you created by using your device and The 'on this particular occasion(s)"...that EE have experienced.
November 2018: EE fined £6.3 million pounds for over charging customers wanting to leave or terminate their contracts early.
January 2017: EE fined by the regulator Ofcom £2.7 million pounds for over charging customers and mis billing issues.
July 2015: EE fined by Ofcom £1 million pounds for misleading customers concerning their complaints.
Sep 2014:EE admits there is a software error 'over inflating' customers actual data usage. This lasted several months and lead to customers believing they had run out off data or were using more data than they actually were. This intern led to customers 'topping up' or buying extra data they didn't need as they still had data even though the EE data counter stated they did not. This was despite thousands of customers complaining to EE about this 'excessive data usage' for over six months and EE telling those customers they were wrong and had used the data.
Not to mention the closing of complaints without the customers permission or knowledge.
Initially EE told me they would look into the service problem after I raised a complaint and I was told that a supervisor would call me back. After not hearing from them for over a week I called them and was told no one would have called me, as my complaint was opened and closed on the same telephone call despite my request for them not to close the complaint until I was called back and the matter resolved. Closing of a complaint without it being logged is a common 'solution' amongst companies these days to the complaints statistics problem and how they investigate and handle complaints. If you don't actually log a complaint, the statistics for your complaints looks much better at the annual review. This is something EE has been fined for in the past. How do you know if they are not going to log a complaint or want to close the one you just opened? They ask you something like..."Are you satisfied with how I handled your call today?". Because if you are 'satisfied' with how that specific agent handled your call, even if you are dissatisfied with the general service you received or are complaining about, you have nothing to complain about as you said you were satisfied....and your complaint is closed, or never logged.
In that same follow up call, EE then told me they were going to increase the monthly price I was paying for my data plan by 67%. Yes that's (Sixty seven percent) just incase you thought that was a typo. When I asked if they were going to take into consideration the five years I had been loyal customer, they said no and I could go and renegotiate with the retentions team if I wanted to. Of course when speaking to the retentions team they weren't interested in the slightest way and offered nothing, not a penny of discount.
The initial reason given for this price increase was that I was "no longer in contract". I was also told by a sepatate member of staff that "EE review its contracts on an annual basis" and "this was the reason for the price increase" This seemed odd as I'd been on a 30 day rolling contract for over five years and this had never happened before in previous years and I had never been informed by EE of such a review or price increase. There is the annual price increase to keep up with inflation which is reasonable and expected but that doesn't usually amount to a 67% price increase.
When speaking to the EE Executive department I was given a different reason. They told me that EE had recently repriced all its price plans and there was "nothing the Executive department could do". The Executive department also disputed my 'loyalty' as a customer in their words and also the discount I was receiving. They stated it was not part of my price plan. In reality, the discount I was reciving up to that point, had been offered two years earlier, as part of a new price plan as they could not upgrade me as I was not on a phone contract. It was clearly stated that the plan would be 'discounted' if I accepted the new terms a conditions.
The Executive Department then refused to discuss the matter further and terminated the call. After this call they issued a deadlock letter. This tactic then allowed them to say "they could no longer discuss the matter with me as 'deadlock' had been reached". This then forced me to either accept the 67% price increase, leave or complain to the Ombudsman.
EE also stated in their deadlock letter that 'all previous offers, no longer stand' even though they had made no previous offers at all and refused to discuss the matter outright Quiet crafty and deceitful of them. Luckily EE customer service provided me with two emails confirming my joining date, the five years I had been a 'loyal customer', the price plan I was on and the price I was paying so this helped a lot with my case when I went to the Ombudsman.
At this point I must praise EE customer services who were honest and upfront and provided the evidence I needed for my case. They were a complete contrast to the EE Exectutive Department who seemed to want to intentionally derail any discussion and avoid any comprimise or mutual agreement. Customer services also advised me that all calls were recorded so should the Ombudsman wish to request those calls they could and they would hear exactly what was discussed, and what was not (what EE didn't offer as they suggested in their deadlock letter). This proved very beneficial later on as customer services could clearly see everything about my EE agreement which the Execrutive Department was denying or pretending did not exist. So 'thank you EE customer services'. Although it took several months to be investigated, the Ombudsman found my complaint to be reasonable and found in my favour. I was refunded the 'over charges' and compensated for my unreasonable and underhanded treatment by EE.
Things you should take away from my experience:
(1). There is no such thing as 'loyalty' in business. When sales teams talk to you about 'customer loyalty', what they actually mean is you are legally shackled to a company. Whereas true loyalty is when you can leave when ever you want and choose stay. If you are the latter like me, a truly loyal customer, there is no reward. Companies just take your money and you are offered no 'incentives, discounts or rewards' for your loyalty unless you negotiate a discount or reward. If you are tied to a company through legal contract, you then get 'rewarded' as a 'loyal customer' because you can't leave when you want to. You are in servitude to be clear. It's important to understand this and understand the illusion and intentional misinterpretation of the meaning of 'loyalty' that companies create to keep your business.
(2). Always have a pen and paper ready to hand 'Before' you ring any company. Always write a date, exact time and the name of the person you spoke to. Make notes.
(3). Be civilised to customer services. They aren't the enemy. They are the medium between you and the CEO, Directors and Owners. They don't make policy or provide slow useless computers... Board members do. Yes, sometimes customer services are 'not clued up' and sometimes under trained, but for the most part they can be an ally and do want to help. Remember, they are in your shoes when they leave work. They still have to deal with the Phone company and Energy company like you so get them on board and help them to help you...while you still can. It won't belong before the computer really does say "No!" and they remove the Human from customer services. Then you're really *#!!*#$!!ed.
(4). Always get a paper or electronic copy of your contract. Many people sign up to contracts over the phone as new customers or current customers renewing or upgrading their contracts. What ever deal you accept with a mobile phone provider or any one for that matter, even family and friends, always get a written or electronic copy of your agreement or contract. Later you may need to rely on it.
(5). When you see a newspaper headline 'Telecoms firm fined £6 million' stop and ask yourself, "What percentage is that of their profits after tax?" EE were recently (November 2018) fined £6.3 million pounds for over charging, as was the situation in my case. Although the fine was very welcoming in my eyes, it's a drop in the ocean when you realise it's a little over 1% (yes one percent...not a typo) of their annual profits after tax...they made £600 million profit this year. In simplified terms this is like fining a person £10 when there monthly income after tax is £1000. The price of a packet of cigarettes. Although £6 million is a lot to most of us, and will undoubtedly anger greedy Chief Executives, Bonus hunting Board members and Share holders, it's a trivial amount. If I was to take £100 out of your monthly £1000 take home you'd think twice about doing what ever you did wrong that caused me to fine you. Ofcom...if you're reading, that's a 10% fine. That hits them where it hurts...their pocket. You'll note OfCom have previously fined EE for 'over charging' and 'billing issues' and 'misleading customers'. Perhaps it's about time the regulator spoke a language that CEO's and Directors understand. The larger the fine, the better the understanding I find, especially in business.
(6). Don't winge and moan and then accept your chosen fate. Do something about it. Be Positive. Be Proactive... Negotiate and then if that fails Complain to the Ombudsman or Regulator. Yes it takes time. But that time you take writing that hour long email costs them money. It also increases your chances of a positive result. After all, you have a chance at winning the Lottery if you buy a ticket but you are gauranteed not to win if you don't bother buying a ticket at all. Choose...either sink or swim.
The Facts: (...or if you prefer... The 'misunderstandings that were your fault... The 'Computer errors' you created by using your device and The 'on this particular occasion(s)"...that EE have experienced.
November 2018: EE fined £6.3 million pounds for over charging customers wanting to leave or terminate their contracts early.
January 2017: EE fined by the regulator Ofcom £2.7 million pounds for over charging customers and mis billing issues.
July 2015: EE fined by Ofcom £1 million pounds for misleading customers concerning their complaints.
Sep 2014:EE admits there is a software error 'over inflating' customers actual data usage. This lasted several months and lead to customers believing they had run out off data or were using more data than they actually were. This intern led to customers 'topping up' or buying extra data they didn't need as they still had data even though the EE data counter stated they did not. This was despite thousands of customers complaining to EE about this 'excessive data usage' for over six months and EE telling those customers they were wrong and had used the data.
Not to mention the closing of complaints without the customers permission or knowledge.
0
Comments
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if you make a complaint. always ask for, and make a note of the complaint number. Ofcom requires that complaints to be recorded and logged, at least you'll know it exists within the company somewhere.
Poor complaint-handing can lead to huge fines from Ofcom. Perhaps not huge in the overall scheme of things, but enough to get shareholders asking questions.0 -
If I'm reading that wall of text correctly, you were on a legacy deal on a rolling monthly contract. EE decided to remove these old (non-profitable?) deals and gave you the choice to pay or leave. Why would you require a deadlock letter for that and why did Ofcom get involved, surely on a 30 day contract both parties can give notice to cancel or (in EE's case) remove or change the contract?0
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Another “newby” with a huge rant.
I don’t mind answering questions or otherwise helping new posters, but these lengthy postings are suspicious to say the least... Competitors marketing department springs to mind.0 -
He just hasn't found the praise, vent & warnings board. He's not interested in anyone else's opinion.Laurence_Bond wrote: »This tactic then allowed them to say "they could no longer discuss the matter with me as 'deadlock' had been reached".
The only time a complaint handler does that is when a customer insists on rehashing the same ground repeatedly because they won't accept what they've been told.
I hope he's used his real name, I'll keep an eye out for it.0 -
I wonder if they are generally reviewing their discounted plans or is op maximising their minutes which could be costing EE ? MrsM got a £14.99 SIM only discounted by £10 a couple of years ago when we asked for a PAC. The downside is she got a 3 x inflation increase this year and the next one will push us into PAC territory again.0
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Networks will regularly give time-limited discounts and equally regularly consumers get upset when those discounts come to an end.0
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