Premier Park Claim Form - Defence stage

jtm1

Afternoon all!

NTK received by Premier Park Ltd (PP) for a £100 PCN in December 2017 for failure to pay (ANPR ticket).

Appealed via POPLA (with photograph evidence) on the basis of:
- Unclear/Inadequate signage (in particular no entrance signage/obstruction of other signs)
- Landowner authority (PP later supplied redacted copy of their agreement)

PP then produced a 51 page response... Annoyingly they produced photos of their entrance signs (timestamped June 16) that were simply not present on the day of the incident (Dec 17), neither were they present upon re-visit (Feb 18) to collect photograph evidence for appeal. They stated "The sign at the entrance does meet all of the BPAs guidance blah blah blah The Appellant has not denied seeing said signage blah blah blah...Even though i evidenced that there were no entrance signs two months after the PCN was issued... In my final comments i highlighted this and that lack of entrance signs is a Breach of BPA COP section 18.2/30.1 in relation to the importance of entrance signs in making others aware of T&C's and in relation to ANPR use. Note this is the BPA COP - Version 6, October 2015 as that is the relevant one given the date of the alleged contravention.

Needless to say, the POPLA adjudicator ignored my points r.e. signage so i feel like PP successfully deceived them to win the appeal.

PP do not know who the driver was on the day of the incident so have continued to pursue me with a LBCC in September 18, which was ignored regrettably (Is this going to hurt me later down the line?). A CCMCC claim form was received with a date of service 08.11.18 so i understand i have until 06.12.18 to submit a defence (am i correct?).

The reason i included all that regarding my appeal is that i'm wondering whether its something that should be addressed in my defence (or better suited in the WS) because surely photos 2 months after are better than 18months before? The argument is that the driver did not see the signage therefore no contract was entered. In the newbies post i see the importance of keeping the defence concise when talking about unclear signage so i'm trying to draft a defence now for review.

All comments welcome.

Thanks for all your hard work in helping us layman fight these cowboys!

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Money Claims Centre Claim Form?

Or did it come from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton?

jtm1

KeithP wrote: »

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Money Claims Centre Claim Form?

Or did it come from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton?

Apologies, Issues date of 05.11.18 and from County Court Money Claims Centre Claim. I forgot to mention AOS was submitted on 08.11.18! Date of Service is 08.11.18.

Redx

your thread title is misleading


at the moment there is no CCJ, just an unresolved money claim

jtm1

Is there a way to edit the thread title? Or shall i delete & repost since it's still young?

Coupon-mad

have continued to pursue me with a LBCC in September 18, which was ignored regrettably (Is this going to hurt me later down the line?).

Nope. It will not affect you. PP need to butt out, and you need to be confident to give them a kicking.

Your defence could simply the bargepole template in the NEWBIES thread, and add a section stating that there were NO entrance signs on the day - or weeks later when the D revisited to check they were right - and you have photo evidence that will be used to demonstrate that fact. And this is why no signs were seen (none were near the car at all) and therefore there was no contract at all.

If I were you I would defend as driver, as (unless this is a lease/hire or company car) I expect PP complied with the POFA.

Also be aware that PP read this forum. Expect a phone call or intimidating contact, like on Andrew Gogun's thread. Don't be put off, you certainly have a case and PP can do one, basically.

In court all you have to show the Judge is that you were the honest witness and there were no sign at all, on the balance of probabilities.

Does GoogleStreetview help you at all, if you look at cached versions?

As long as you are not on a phone, you can hit the EDIT button under your first post then ADVANCED, which lets you edit a title.

KeithP

jtm1 wrote: »

Issues date of 05.11.18 and from County Court Money Claims Centre Claim.

With a Claim Issue Date of 5th November, and having done the AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 10th December 2018 to file your Defence.

Over two weeks away. Loads of time to produce a good Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

1) Print your Defence.
2) Sign it and date it.
3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to ccmcce-filing@justice.gov.uk
5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
6) [STRIKE]Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.[/STRIKE]
7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.


Note that the email address mentioned above is different to the one usually mentioned.
This is because your claim has come from the the County Court Money Claims Centre in Salford rather that the more usual County Court Business Centre in Northampton.

jtm1

Title changed - Thanks for the guidance.

Glad ignoring LBCC won't sting me in this case and yes i've seen the bargepole's defence and i agree with you... Will draft asap.

I'm not phased by hassling phonecalls, i know their purpose and they shall be ignored!

Wow...just checked cached versions of streetview (didn't know you could do that) and i can now pin point the month that the entrance sign 'disappeared'...way before the date of the PCN. Thats great evidence to add.

jtm1

KeithP wrote: »

6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.

Thanks Keith. Yes that e-mail address was the one i submitted my AOS to.

Are you sure i will be able to log in to MCOL? I didn't think this claim is managed through that system. My claim form didn't have a defence pack password for MCOL so initially i was confused but soon realised i had to send it via e-mail.

KeithP

jtm1 wrote: »

Thanks Keith. Yes that e-mail address was the one i submitted my AOS to.

Are you sure i will be able to log in to MCOL? I didn't think this claim is managed through that system. My claim form didn't have a defence pack password for MCOL so initially i was confused but soon realised i had to send it via e-mail.

You are right. MCOL isn't applicable to you.
I have further edited my earlier post.

jtm1

Coupon-mad wrote: »

If I were you I would defend as driver, as (unless this is a lease/hire or company car) I expect PP complied with the POFA.

In the POPLA appeal they did produce ANPR records showing that the vehicle in question had been to the carpark previously and paid, therefore implying that the driver was aware of the T&C's. In this case it's not the same driver.