We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide
Appealed but it was rejected - what now?!
vicster83
Posts: 12 Forumite
Hi ll,
First time posting in here but I got a letter from here to fight a parking charge but they've rejected it. Just wondering what my next steps would be? I'm still within 14 days to pay the reduced fee so wondering whether to just do it? I parked, the signs are small, with small print but recently they have changed the meters so they are very visible (they weren't when i got this ticket) you get 3 hours free, then you have to go a machine and pay if you go over. I thought i was under but went over 12 minutes. This is a shopping centre with a gym, banks, food places, shopping etc so 3 hours is easily hit.
Thanks in advance!
Here's their response:
RE: Contractual Parking Charge Notice ....
Thank you for your email.
There are sufficient signs at the entrance to and in prominent locations throughout the car park displaying the terms and conditions. Your are welcome to revisit the site to view the signage, we advise you to adhere to the terms and conditions of parking when visit the site.
Our signage complies with the International Parking Community's Approved Operator Scheme.
The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("the Act), (Schedule 4), which governs parking on private land, provides a definition for "parking charge" and "adequate notice" of such private parking charges. The relevant sections of Schedule 4 to the Act state :
“parking charge”
(a) in the case of a relevant obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract, means a sum in the nature of a fee or charge, and
(b) in the case of a relevant obligation arising as a result of a trespass or other tort, means a sum in the nature of damages ...
... “relevant obligation” means
(a) an obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract; or
(b) an obligation arising, in any circumstances where there is no relevant contract, as a result of a trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land; ...
... The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles
(when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).
For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by:
... (b) ... the display of one or more notices which
(i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and
(ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land".
In this instance a parking charge has been issued based on the fact that the driver of your vehicle entered into a contract with us (by the act of parking the vehicle) and our signage (which states the terms and conditions of parking) having been clearly displayed in the car park.
The Act permits parking charges to be rendered on private land, and the case of Parking Eye Limited v Somerfield Stores Limited [2012] EWCA Civ 1338 (Court of Appeal) held that (taking into account inflation) the parking company was entitled to claim a parking charge of a similar amount to that which we have charged, and therefore your reference to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is not of any relevance in the context of this parking charge.
You should also be aware that the amount of our parking charges accords within recommendations by our Trade Associations.
Our claim is not based on trespass, but on a breach of contract.
We have taken legal advice and we have been advised that not only can our parking charges be justified on the basis that they amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss but are likely to amount to "liquidated damages". This is because the Court's position is that where the parties to a contract agree to fix the amount which is to be paid by way of damages in the event of a breach of contract - which is the basis of the contract detailed on our signage - a sum stipulated in this way (particularly in circumstances where there is difficulty in calculating a precise estimation) is likely to be classed as liquidated damages. Either way, our parking charges are fully enforceable and do not amount to a "penalty". You should also be aware that in accordance with the case of Robophone Facilities v Blank the onus of proving that an amount claimed is a penalty, rather than liquidated damages, is upon you (as the party against whom the parking charge is claimed).
We confirm that it is not necessary for us to provide you with a breakdown of our parking charges at this time. That information is confidential, but is available and will be provided to the Court in the course of Court proceedings, if necessary, and if payment has not been made before then.
You received a parking charge because the driver breached the terms and conditions of parking - and is therefore liable to pay the amount of a parking charge stated on our signage. We also refer you to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act, which sets out the legal basis upon which we may demand payment from the vehicle’s registered keeper if the driver fails to pay us the parking charge.
As your appeal has been rejected, any further correspondence may not receive a response, the options below are still open to you.
You now have one of the following options available to you:
1. Pay the outstanding Parking Charge. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0333 733 3000 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.
2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to The Independent Appeals Service The Independent Appeals Service provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the The Independent Appeals Service Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of your first rejection.
3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
Customer Services
G24 Ltd
First time posting in here but I got a letter from here to fight a parking charge but they've rejected it. Just wondering what my next steps would be? I'm still within 14 days to pay the reduced fee so wondering whether to just do it? I parked, the signs are small, with small print but recently they have changed the meters so they are very visible (they weren't when i got this ticket) you get 3 hours free, then you have to go a machine and pay if you go over. I thought i was under but went over 12 minutes. This is a shopping centre with a gym, banks, food places, shopping etc so 3 hours is easily hit.
Thanks in advance!
Here's their response:
RE: Contractual Parking Charge Notice ....
Thank you for your email.
There are sufficient signs at the entrance to and in prominent locations throughout the car park displaying the terms and conditions. Your are welcome to revisit the site to view the signage, we advise you to adhere to the terms and conditions of parking when visit the site.
Our signage complies with the International Parking Community's Approved Operator Scheme.
The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("the Act), (Schedule 4), which governs parking on private land, provides a definition for "parking charge" and "adequate notice" of such private parking charges. The relevant sections of Schedule 4 to the Act state :
“parking charge”
(a) in the case of a relevant obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract, means a sum in the nature of a fee or charge, and
(b) in the case of a relevant obligation arising as a result of a trespass or other tort, means a sum in the nature of damages ...
... “relevant obligation” means
(a) an obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract; or
(b) an obligation arising, in any circumstances where there is no relevant contract, as a result of a trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land; ...
... The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles
(when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).
For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by:
... (b) ... the display of one or more notices which
(i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and
(ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land".
In this instance a parking charge has been issued based on the fact that the driver of your vehicle entered into a contract with us (by the act of parking the vehicle) and our signage (which states the terms and conditions of parking) having been clearly displayed in the car park.
The Act permits parking charges to be rendered on private land, and the case of Parking Eye Limited v Somerfield Stores Limited [2012] EWCA Civ 1338 (Court of Appeal) held that (taking into account inflation) the parking company was entitled to claim a parking charge of a similar amount to that which we have charged, and therefore your reference to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is not of any relevance in the context of this parking charge.
You should also be aware that the amount of our parking charges accords within recommendations by our Trade Associations.
Our claim is not based on trespass, but on a breach of contract.
We have taken legal advice and we have been advised that not only can our parking charges be justified on the basis that they amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss but are likely to amount to "liquidated damages". This is because the Court's position is that where the parties to a contract agree to fix the amount which is to be paid by way of damages in the event of a breach of contract - which is the basis of the contract detailed on our signage - a sum stipulated in this way (particularly in circumstances where there is difficulty in calculating a precise estimation) is likely to be classed as liquidated damages. Either way, our parking charges are fully enforceable and do not amount to a "penalty". You should also be aware that in accordance with the case of Robophone Facilities v Blank the onus of proving that an amount claimed is a penalty, rather than liquidated damages, is upon you (as the party against whom the parking charge is claimed).
We confirm that it is not necessary for us to provide you with a breakdown of our parking charges at this time. That information is confidential, but is available and will be provided to the Court in the course of Court proceedings, if necessary, and if payment has not been made before then.
You received a parking charge because the driver breached the terms and conditions of parking - and is therefore liable to pay the amount of a parking charge stated on our signage. We also refer you to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act, which sets out the legal basis upon which we may demand payment from the vehicle’s registered keeper if the driver fails to pay us the parking charge.
As your appeal has been rejected, any further correspondence may not receive a response, the options below are still open to you.
You now have one of the following options available to you:
1. Pay the outstanding Parking Charge. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0333 733 3000 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.
2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to The Independent Appeals Service The Independent Appeals Service provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the The Independent Appeals Service Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of your first rejection.
3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
Customer Services
G24 Ltd
0
Comments
-
You've done what you can with G24, so just ignore anything else they or their debt collectors send you. Other than getting a landowner cancellation, there's no more you can do to get this killed off.
I have to add this caveat. While G24 are not currently litigious (they have never pursued a single private parking charge through the court), they do have up to 6 years to pursue you. It would take a brave man/woman to guarantee their behaviour between now and 2024. Come back (only) if you receive a formal Letter Before Claim/Action or real court papers.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.#Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
hi, and welcome ...
have you had a read if the newbies thread ?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou
as this is a IPC scammer ... you will be going into ignore mode ...
unless you get a letter before court , or actual court papers ...
have you complained to all the shops you visited ?
have you complained to the car park owners / landlord ?
tey and do a forum search for 'grace periods'
"HOW TO USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION:
Use the Forum Jump button (one near the top and one near the bottom of this page) to get back to the forum thread list. Just above the threads, on the right, is a heading along a line, next to forum tools, called 'Search this Forum'. Put your key word(s) in and change the default search from 'Show Threads' to 'Show Posts'. "
Ralph:cool:0 -
This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.
Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct
The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has even been suggested that some of these companies have links with organised crime.
Watch the video of the Second Reading and committee stage in the House of Commons recently. MPs have a very low opinion of this industry.
http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41
and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business in the not too distant future.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-19/debates/2b90805c-bff8-4707-8bdc-b0bfae5a7ad5/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill(FirstSittingYou never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Why would you pay a scam?
Even their address is a scam PO box number.
The "discount" is actually a bribe to get you to pay up and shut up with the least line of resistance.0 -
Why don't people simply search the forum for G24?
I had no time to even read that post (sorry, we are too busy on here to linger on silly old G24). It's only G24!
Tell us when you've read at least 20 other G24 threads by searching, and have got the scam cancelled by the Retailers.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Hi,
Thanks for your reply. I did search g24 but it was others just asking - i didn't find anything besides the one letter i got from some successful (which they denied) ??!! Maybe i looked in the wrong place!
Its a shopping centre with different shops, so I have sent an email to the management of the precinct saying its unfair, i was using their amenities and they have a responsibility to their customers to make sure they are ripped off by their customers when visiting.
Please do appreciate I'm very new to this, and not had one of G24 before so i wouldn't know 'they are only g24 for goodness sake' or 'stop reading their dross' I can appreciate you may repeat your self on a daily basis so must be frustrating for you so i am grateful you getting back to me.
Ive read the newbie thread, and to be honest, its a minefield and my head is scrambled. i don't know what to do next or what is right.
So now i just ignore? They didn't send me the popla code as i asked for, so i'll email the DVLA about that as stated in the newbie thread?
I have looked at my bank statement and some payments in shops, didnt go through until the day after?! How do i go about that?
I shopped their that day so is it the shops i need to complain too as well as the management? I just don't think the staff will know what to do?! Probably just shrug it off and say there's nothing we can do.
Thanks again, I really do appreciate it. maybe I'm just not the brightest button in the box because reading everything lost me, and i didn't know what i was meant to do.0 -
So now i just ignore? They didn't send me the popla code as i asked for, so i'll email the DVLA about that as stated in the newbie thread?
POPLA is for parking companies that are members of the BPA. There's a different second level appeal 'service' for companies like G24 that are IPC members, it's called IAS. The advice on the Newbies' thread is not to appeal to IAS other than in some exceptional circumstances. That's why you're advised to sit back and forget about this unless and until you get a Letter Before Claim or court papers. If that happens, come straight back to this thread for assistance.
But yes, meanwhile it is highly advisable to complain strongly to the management of the retail park rather than to managers of individual stores. I can't see why the usual delay in seeing payments on your bank statement would be a problem. With a mere 12 minute overstay an assertive, quite detailed complaint / strong request for cancellation of the parking charge has to have a good chance of success.
Most peoples' brains are a bit scrambled at this point but you seem to have done all the right things so far.0 -
Shopping centre have said its nothing to do with them, g24 control it. long story short - its my fault so pay it!!
apparently you have a 10 minute grace period and you can pay that within 24 hours on the website - never knew that alatt!
he wasn't budging on the phone, said theres far less tickets now than when they had a pay and display - i asked if he had access to that information, did he know that for sure. He wasn't having any of it!!!0 -
I've just looked and they are members of BPA but suggest going through IAS on the letter (wonder why!)
Obviously I'm worried about the outcome of not paying, which i guess is how they get you!!!
So ignore now, no further appeal :-/0 -
Our posts crossed.
The so & so! Who was 'he' exactly? I think you would do well to persevere with this. Start composing something hard-hitting ready to email back. But could be that you can find a 'higher authority' to complain to.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 354.4K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.4K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.4K Spending & Discounts
- 247.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 604.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.5K Life & Family
- 261.6K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards