Parking Eye Court Claim Form - Please help

Coupon-mad

Why is Cardiff not a good option - hostile judges?

Errrm...it's notorious. Surely your wife has heard of the Indigo UHW Nurses' case?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5728064/indigo-cardiff-nurses-case-permission-to-appeal-refused

It will be a miracle if you get a fair hearing, but give it your best shot together.

The WS is very good, and the points about the yellow/white 'staff parking' signage is strong (or would be with a normal Judge). Put in as much by way of evidential photos as you can, as signage is about the only thing you are likely to get the Judge to consider.

Also, in their images, have they shown the car going in and out of that small car park, or have they shown the car at the entrance and exit of the entire place?

hurtbuyer

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Errrm...it's notorious. Surely your wife has heard of the Indigo UHW Nurses' case?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5728064/indigo-cardiff-nurses-case-permission-to-appeal-refused

It will be a miracle if you get a fair hearing, but give it your best shot together.

The WS is very good, and the points about the yellow/white 'staff parking' signage is strong (or would be with a normal Judge). Put in as much by way of evidential photos as you can, as signage is about the only thing you are likely to get the Judge to consider.

Also, in their images, have they shown the car going in and out of that small car park, or have they shown the car at the entrance and exit of the entire place?

Oh yes ofcourse, we have heard of the Indigo case. That does worry me but we'll see.

The ANPR shots show entry and exit from the small place. Does that make a difference in any way?

Umkomaas

hurtbuyer wrote: »

The ANPR shots show entry and exit from the small place. Does that make a difference in any way?

Standard ANPR procedure. What exactly were you thinking that this might make a difference?

hurtbuyer

Umkomaas wrote: »

Standard ANPR procedure. What exactly were you thinking that this might make a difference?

I meant that the ANPR shots were for the small car park in question rather than the common entrance to both the small and large car parks. I suppose if it was a common camera, they couldn't prove who went into which one and the I could have questioned that.

hurtbuyer

Any advice on quoting the following text from

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/know-your-parking-and-traffic-signs

with the idea of saying there wasn't any signage to say that it was not a staff parking zone.

Parking on Private Land:

Car parks associated with supermarkets, hospitals, leisure centres, retail parks, shopping centres etc. are usually private land and parking is managed using the laws of contract or trespass.

Typically, a principal sign will be displayed near the entrance to the car park describing who the car park is for and if there are time limits on how long it is possible to stay and details of any charges or free periods that may apply. Local signage in and around the car park may provide more information including how much you will be charged if you do not comply with any of the terms and conditions for using the car park.

Private parking operators who are members of an Accredited Trade Association (ATA) must adhere to a Code of Practice which provides guidance for size, placement and content of signs.

Umkomaas

Use any additional evidence that helps you. You obviously need to check whether the signage at the entrance/in the car park meets (or otherwise) the requirements. You'll need plenty of your own photos to back any assertion.

hurtbuyer

The pack from PE arrived yesterday. It's titled 'Reply to Defence'.

It is mostly a large formula set of papers. There is a gentle mention that I said my wife was a member of staff and that if she parks in a visitor area, she needed to comply with the t&cs of that car park. It contains copies of all the paperwork sent to me - ntk, reminder etc. and loads of reports regarding the Beavis case and some others.
It contains a plan of signage points off a googlemap sheet which shows where the exit and entry are for the little car park but no mention that the exit joins into the entry/ exit of the large staff car park. The entry to the small car park is from a different way. My wife entered through what is shown as the exit but there are no signs to say 'no entry' from the common path leading to both the large car park and the alleged exit of this little visitor car park. Also no signs indicating that entering the little car park leads to a visitor area. That is my defence. They have said nothing on the lines of the fact that the car actually entered and exited through what they term as the exit - the ANPR captures were both from that way.
Should I expand further on my argument based on what they have now sent?

hurtbuyer

I have reworked my wife's defence - apologies for posting such a long one.

As ever, value any thoughts and comments:

Should a schedule of costs be attached to this or should it be carried on the day.

***************************

In the County Court at Cardiff, Cardiff Civil Justice Centre, 2 Park Street, Cardiff CF10 1ET.

Claim No. XXXXXX
Between

PARKINGEYE LTD (Claimant)

and

Mr XXXXXX (Defendant)

Witness Statement by Mrs XXXXXXXX (Defendant's wife and driver of the car on the day)

1. I, XXXXXXX of XXX Address XXXX work as a XXXXX for XXXXX in the University Hospital of Wales Cardiff. I attach an image of my identity card (Exhibit XXXXX).

2. I hold a general staff car parking permit for the car in question (XXXXXXX) whose registered keeper is my husband XXXXX. I attach a confirmation email from the Parking Department at the University Hospital of Wales (Exhibit XXXXX).

3. The management of car parking at the hospital changed to Parking eye on 5th June 2018, X weeks before the PCN was issued. All zones and signs including colour coding changed. Also a new ANPR system was started.

4. According to Parking Eye, general Staff Parking zone signboards are in yellow and white with no time limit restrictions. Visitor parking zone signboards are in blue and white and have a 4 hour stay restriction.

5. The University Hospital of Wales site is huge and there are several thousand car parking spaces spread across multiple zones. According to Cardiff and Vale University Health Board, 16000 cars use the site every working day. When the parking system was totally overhauled the only way to work out where one can or cannot park on a daily basis was to look for signage.

6. The signage for parking zones, buildings, departments and warnings are in completely mixed and inconsistent colours, styles and sizes across the whole site and has been made worse through Parking Eye’s new system of signage. It is very difficult even for staff who use the site regularly, let alone sick patients who visit.

7. There is no maintenance and most signage is run down. It is evident that Parking Eye took over parking management on 5th June 2018 and randomly posted some of their own signboards without any logical thought about how drivers would understand and distinguish the different types of signs. The only people disadvantaged are busy staff and patients, a significant number of whom are not from Cardiff but come from all over Wales for the most critical treatments. The state of affairs is no different even today, ten months after Parking Eye have taken over.

8. On the XXth of XXXX (XX weeks after the change of management) as I arrived for work in the morning and was looking to park the car (registration no. XXXXX), I turned right from XXXXX Street (which is the main street running around the hospital campus) into a parking zone where I could see two ‘yellow and white’ staff parking sign boards in the distance indicating a general staff car parking zone (Exhibit XXXXX). As I drove in, there were 9 different signboards of different colours, sizes, and text facing me as described below (Exhibit XXXXX)

a) A ‘Half blue - half white’ sign board showing names of three buildings separately in Welsh and English showing straight arrows on the right (Exhibit XXXXX)

b) A yellow and white board further ahead on the right in English saying it was a staff parking zone (Exhibit XXXXX)

c) A camera picture sign board below the above yellow and white board (Exhibit XXXXX)
On the left there were a number of signboards as below, some of which cover each other and a few bent by what looked like have been hit by vehicles but not repaired. (Exhibit XXXXX)
d) A yellow and white board in Welsh similar in style to ‘b’ above indicating that is was a general staff parking zone. I am not a Welsh speaker.

e) A full yellow sign board with black text warning against walking with ‘high heels’, partly covered by the above Welsh signboard ‘d’ and the 3 signboards listed in ‘f’.

f) 3 faded red signboards with text in white and grey in different sizes, some faded signage repeating the building names in the white and blue boards but adding some more hospital department related signs.

g) The red boards are covered partly by a ‘danger’ sign board which is bent at an angle and is not legible at all. One of the red signs has being lying on the ground for months and no one has fixed it back.

I was entering the car park during the peak morning rush hour between 8am and 8.30am and as expected for such a large staff car park, there was a queue of cars behind me as hospital staff were arriving for work. It is humanly impossible for a normal person to read through every one of the sign boards as described above, let alone make a guess about a signboard that is not there.

At this point, there were two options for me - to go straight into the large car park inside or turn left to enter another very small car park which had a handful of spaces. (Exhibit XXXXX)

9. As explained in 8b above, amongst all the signs as listed there was an English yellow and white sign saying 'General Staff Parking' and a similar one in Welsh indicating that both the areas were general staff parking zones. As can be clearly seen from the images, there were no ‘blue and white’ signs indicating that the small car park on the left was a visitor parking zone.

10. As I drove in, I could see a space available in the small car park on the left and hence turned left and parked in the space. There were no blue and white visitor parking signboards in view. (Exhibit XXXXX) shows the area where I parked and the absence of any further signboards.

11. As can be seen from the ANPR images (Exhibit XXXXX), I entered and exited the car park using the same path. Parking Eye in their response to defence claim state that this is the exit from the small car park and that the entry to the car park is from another end at the far end, thus making it a one-way system. As can be seen from the photographs, there were no signs anywhere to indicate to me that this was an exit path and hence not for left turn entry. This also creates a hazard for drivers as the path is narrow and drivers unknowingly drive into the car park in the wrong direction in a one-way system (of which there is no signposting whatsoever).

12. Parking Eye refer to the small car park where I parked as ‘Public Car Park XX’ and upon investigation I found that the large staff car park is called ‘Staff Car Park YY’. So Parking Eye are claiming that the exit from Public Zone XX joins the entry/exit of Staff Zone YY and users are expected to guess that this is the case without any signposting whatsoever.

13. Parking Eye claim to be a member of the industry body British Parking Association (BPA) and follow their regulations. The BPA website page stipulating signage requirements at

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/know-your-parking-and-traffic-signs/159294

states:

Parking on Private Land:

Car parks associated with supermarkets, hospitals, leisure centres, retail parks, shopping centres etc. are usually private land and parking is managed using the laws of contract or trespass.

Typically, a principal sign will be displayed near the entrance to the car park describing who the car park is for and if there are time limits on how long it is possible to stay and details of any charges or free periods that may apply. Local signage in and around the car park may provide more information including how much you will be charged if you do not comply with any of the terms and conditions for using the car park.

Private parking operators who are members of an Accredited Trade Association (ATA) must adhere to a Code of Practice which provides guidance for size, placement and content of signs.


As Parking Eye very clearly did not adhere to the basic requirement for display of a ‘visitor parking zone’ sign at the entrance of the car park, it is in violation of BPA’s code of practice and they are falsely claiming compliance. It is thus giving the public, BPA and the land owner a false sense of being a legitimate industry standards compliant parking management company.

14. Upon receipt of the PCN, I visited the car park and took photographs to verify this. I also attach a (Exhibit XXXXX) googlemaps street view image showing the view going in to the car parks from Heath Park Way.

15. The small car park is proportionally much smaller than the larger one. I attach two google maps satellite view images (Exhibit XXXXX) (unlabelled) and (Exhibit XXXXX) (labelled) to show the relative size of the areas. Given that both have a common point of entry and the lack of any blue and white visitor parking signage, it is not possible for anyone to logically think that the smaller car park is not part of the same parking zone as the bigger car park and hence has different terms and conditions for parking. Also there is no indication whatsoever to say that it is not a path for entry.

16. I also draw attention to the fact that both car parks have been staff parking zones in the past under Indigo Car Parks before ParkingEye took over the management of the site. It was a ‘pay and display’ parking zone for staff permit holders only and not for visitors. I attach a googlemaps street view image from March 2017 (Exhibit XXXXX) which has signposting clearly showing that the whole area was ‘Pay and Display Permit Holders Only’ zone. XX weeks after the new parking system was introduced, it was impossible for me to know that the zones had changed without proper sign posting.

17. Parking Eye also reference the ‘Parking Eye vs Beavis’ case in their response to defence. It can be said clearly that there is no parallel between this and the Beavis case as the Beavis case as a basic premise had very good signposting and the overstay took place inspite of that. In my case there was no signposting which led me to park in a car park where restrictions applied rather than where I was permitted to park without restrictions.

18. My husband Mr XXXXXX (as registered keeper of the car) received a PCN notice in the post stating that there had been an overstay in the car park referring to it as a public car park zone XX.

19. It is my position that the Claimant has no standing, or cause of action, to litigate against me or my husband in this matter.

20. I invite the Court to dismiss this claim in its entirety, and to award our costs of attendance at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.

Statement of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.



Signature
Date

***************************

Redx

you should follow the advice by BARGEPOLE and especially LOC123 listed in the NEWBIES THREAD about the COSTS SCHEDULE, WHICH NEEDS TO BE SUBMITTED A DAY OR MORE BEFOREHAND (plus the skeleton argument too) - having copies on the day is also advised, but you cannot just turn up and ambush people , especially not the judge

we implore you to read and digest that post #2 because it contains all you need to know and those 2 people are legally qualified , ie:- its all there IF YOU LOOK , not looking , reading and digesting the info is holding you back

its free legal advice , so please use it , you wont get better free advice and maybe not if you paid for it either

hurtbuyer

Redx wrote: »

you should follow the advice by BARGEPOLE and especially LOC123 listed in the NEWBIES THREAD about the COSTS SCHEDULE, WHICH NEEDS TO BE SUBMITTED A DAY OR MORE BEFOREHAND (plus the skeleton argument too) - having copies on the day is also advised, but you cannot just turn up and ambush people , especially not the judge

we implore you to read and digest that post #2 because it contains all you need to know and those 2 people are legally qualified , ie:- its all there IF YOU LOOK , not looking , reading and digesting the info is holding you back

its free legal advice , so please use it , you wont get better free advice and maybe not if you paid for it either

Thank you. Costs schedule this one I imagine?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72079752#Comment_72079752

I am not sure how to split the WS that I have written up into a Skeleton Argument and WS. Is the WS that I have written ok?