Messy Disabled Parking Notice

Fruitcake

Redx wrote: »

so UKPC, not UKPN then , so as mentioned above, edit your posts to give the correct details

I dont have a photobucket account so cannot see your pics, try using tinypic instead

if there was a windscreen ticket, wait until day 57 so that they cannot issue one within POFA2012 guidelines


however, if a postal NTK has been received from UKPC by the keeper of the vehicle, then that is the NTK


meanwhile, complain in writing to the landowner or M.A. and mention the Equality Act 2010 with a redacted copy/scan/pic of the BB as well

The first pic is a close up of a bog standard UKPC sign. The second pic is of a few spaces in a car park in shadow with the whole car redacted so you can only see a black blob. One space over is a bog standard sign on a pole.
Nothing we haven't seen before.

https://i.postimg.cc/j2KzZ5gf/Pic-of-parking-sign.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/7ZQnwqhv/LD-Sign.jpg

LyndiDay

I've corrected the parking company name. Sorry for the confusion.

With regard to the online appeal. The appeal was made in my sister's name and using "I". However, it doesn't say she was driving and she wasn't driving. This might sound odd, but as the disabled person in the car, it was her who needed to use the disabled bay. And, while legally the blue badge scheme might not apply to private car parks, under the blue badge scheme it is the fact the disabled person is in the vehicle that is relevant. Plus she wouldn't want a friend to get in trouble for doing her a favour and driving her to the shops.

The company haven't replied to this appeal, though my niece got an automated response saying that they had got it. The only postal communication to my sister has been from the debt collectors.

Even though it seems she has a good case, my sister is scared of debt collectors and in a bit of a state. Would there be any benefit in writing to them or the parking company clearly saying she was the passenger not the driver in advance of the 56 days?

Fruitcake

Thanks for clearing this up a bit. It's good news that the appeal is in your sister's name, there has been no admission or even a suggestion that she was driving, and indeed she was not driving.
This won't stop the scammers from trying to extort monies from her though.

Debt collectors have absolutely no powers whatsoever. The only thing they can do is send out poor quality bog paper.
They cannot come to someone's door.
They cannot take anyone to court.
They cannot send bailiffs round.

No contact should be made with the debt crawler company. Never ever 'phone them or the PPC.
Only ever communicate with the PPC, and only ever in writing.

However, contacting the scammers now might make them realise they haven't sent an NTK, so I suggest she waits to see if one arrives. Don't prompt them now lest they realise their mistake.

An appeal has been made so you/your sister are now in waiting mode until they reply. Come back here when they do.
If no NTK has been received by the time this gets to 56 days, complain to the BPA and DVLA that no PoPLA code was issued, and the scammers have gone straight to debt crawlers during the appeal period which is a breach of the BPA CoP.

Please bear in mind that UKPC were caught doctoring time stamps on their photo "evidence." It is eminently possible that it was not your sister who knocked the badge onto the floor, but some person or persons unknown who bounced up and down on the car to dislodge the badge with malice aforethought.

Coupon-mad

UKPC probably sent a rejection email to whatever email addy the appellant provided, and that would have had the POPLA code (now expired). But check to see if that arrived.

If not, the appellant should complain to the BPA:

steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

about the lack of POPLA code.

Whilst also complaining to the retail park and Store Manager about this harassment of a known disabled person, and copy in UKPC with a copy of the Blue Badge and stating that it was visible through the window and if it was knocked down, that was a feature of her unstable mobility. But still visible through the window, easily. So the passenger was known to be disabled and was almost certainly watched by their employee, struggling to get out of the car:

appealmoreinfo@ukparkingcontrol.com

You can find out the email of the retail park by Googling the place.

And bottom line if no-one stops this scam, the simple end game is NOT to pay, but simply:

- send UKPC a new address for the sister, so that all the scamograms go to a robust family member's house who knows the score (you)? And you can tell anxious sister that you are dealing with it and she will hear no more (which she won't, as no letters will go to her once you change the address for service).

LyndiDay

Fruitcake says:

Fruitcake wrote: »

The signs are inadequate and do not conform to the BPA Code of Practice requirements. The charges of £100 and £60 are in small font, and thus disimilar to the Beavis case.
They are the usual rubbish signs that UKPC always use, and they never comply = failure at PoPLA.

Yours, Fruitcake's Cousin

I’ve looked at the BPA code of practice. I’ll have another look at the signage on site. I can see that there are requirements wrt an entrance sign & disabled signage. However, I can’t see anywhere that it mentions font size for money. Can you provide a reference?

Coupon-mad

There is nothing about font size for the charges. But you only have to compare it to the ParkingEye v Beavis sign and what the Supreme court said about its 'large lettering'.

Did you see what I suggested above in post #15 including providing another address so she never gets the letters, going forward? Stops her paying a scam due to panic.

LyndiDay

Coupon mad says:

Coupon-mad wrote: »

UKPC probably sent a rejection email to whatever email addy the appellant provided, and that would have had the POPLA code (now expired). But check to see if that arrived.

If not, the appellant should complain to the BPA:

Whilst also complaining to the retail park and Store Manager about this harassment of a known disabled person, and copy in UKPC with a copy of the Blue Badge and stating that it was visible through the window and if it was knocked down, that was a feature of her unstable mobility. But still visible through the window, easily. So the passenger was known to be disabled and was almost certainly watched by their employee, struggling to get out of the car:

And bottom line if no-one stops this scam, the simple end game is NOT to pay, but simply:

- send UKPC a new address for the sister, so that all the scamograms go to a robust family member's house who knows the score (you)? And you can tell anxious sister that you are dealing with it and she will hear no more (which she won't, as no letters will go to her once you change the address for service).

UKPC have sent an acknowledge of appeal, but no letter. The acknowledgement asked that if we hadn’t received a response within 35 days we should contact them. The 35 days is up & we have not contacted them about it. I’m not sure what the BPA/legal implications of this are. To my mind their passing the buck should prevent us getting a valid POPLA code, even if we delay a couple more weeks to ask for it. My sister doesn’t use the phone because of her disability so if they try it on that’s just one more breach of the Equality Act to throw at them. I'm trying to wait until the end of the month to minimise the chance of an NTK. Does anyone think we should ask for this right now rather than waiting?

With regard to the advice on the visibility of the blue badge. The operator have taken photos all around the car and both sides of the front seat of the car. There is a murky grey blob on the floor that might be the blue badge and I suppose the operator could have seen it and the photo is of poor resolution. I will certainly mention this in any POPLA appeal. I think it’s better to acknowledge this rather than damaging our credibility.

My sister has agreed to let me deal with this, at least to a POPLA appeal. And I've asked my niece and her carers not to get any more involved. So, we will fight this. I'm actually quite angry about this, which is pretty motivating.

We’ve clearly made this quite messy. Unfortunately, when you deal with someone with severe anxiety and some cognitive impairment it does get messy. I guess that is why the Equality Act requires safeguarding and reasonable adjustments for the disabled. As a consequence, some of the advice is a little contradictory. Based on your advice & my reading, this is what I think is best.

1. Write to MP. As well as complaining about the processing of this ticket, I suspect I will ask them to write to the BPA to update their guidance for disabled motorists as it is clearly inadequate.
2. Write to landlord & retailer. As well as explaining the situation I will asking them to intervene I will ask for any relevant CCTV as in the unlikely event this goes to court the decision is made on the balance of probabilities and I’d like more than my sister’s word that she was the passenger. Even if they don’t have CCTV the letters may influence the court.
3. Wait until 56 days are up from original ticket so encorage them off to contact the keeper.
4. Get my sister with my help to write to UKPC within 28 days of debt collector letter &
a. Confirm that my sister was the passenger & their requirements to not discriminate against her & to provide reasonable adaptations for her.
b. Include another copy of her blue badge as evidence of her disability.
c. Ask them for the POPLA code that they have not yet sent.
d. Tell them that as a result of her mental disabilities she has asked me to deal with this matter on her behalf & provide them with my name & address. If they comply great. If they don’t my sister will just pass on the post to me & we get more grounds for complaint.
e. Ask them for evidence of the landlord & the landlord’s permission for them to act as their agent. Let’s make them work for this.
f. Ask for copies of all correspondence purporting to be from my sister. I’m unclear of exactly what has been said and so is my sister.
g. Tell them that my sister no longer works and is totally reliant on disability benefits, so if they decide to take this to court, & in the unlikely event they win they are unlikely to get anything more than a trickle of money, & that is after we appeal on their illegal contract that breaches the equality act. I’d like to give them as much reason as possible to drop this.
h. Tell them that we have incurred expenses in dealing with them and if they peruse this further we will counter claim for those and all future expenses.
5. At the same time ask the BPA for the missing POPLA code.
6. In the event we have to appeal to POPLA find as many separate grounds for appeal as possible. To this end I’m having another look at the signage on site, and reviewing the equality act, BPA code of practice and the Department of Transport guidance around Schedule 4 of POFA 2012.

Do you agree?

Thanks for bearing with me on this.

Coupon-mad

The acknowledgement asked that if we hadn’t received a response within 35 days we should contact them. The 35 days is up & we have not contacted them about it. I'm trying to wait until the end of the month to minimise the chance of an NTK. Does anyone think we should ask for this right now rather than waiting?

I agree to wait till the end of the month then give UKPC a prod using the email I gave you.

And yes I agree you have got all of the above right, and more power to you!