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BW Legal Napier Parking LoC & Reply Form

loopylou37 Forumite Posts: 10
Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
I will try to keep this short I expect everyone is fed up with this topic and BW Legal. But just need someone to say I'm doing the right thing!?

FCN received last Dec. I parked outside B&M stores in a car park that entitles you to 1 hour free parking for shoppers if you display a ticket. The machine was not working correctly and was displaying error messages after 5 attempts to get a free ticket. Assumed as it was an hour free and their machine was not working I was OK. Obviosly not. Was parked 10 minutes and in that time I was photographed and charged.

Turns out it was not B&M car park but run by Napier Parking. I also complained to B&M, who seemed equally exasperated and said they were also in various parking disputes with Napier. Officially their head office could not help and just said I had to appeal.

So I appealed to IAS, I argued it was not my fault as the machine was faulty... along with an entire page of arguments I came across while researching online - my own photos, requesting records of maintenance etc etc. Unforuntately that failed.

In May I said that the IAS decision is not legally binding but in order to put it to bed and avoid wasting the Courts time I offered a without prejudice offer of £50 without any admission of liability. I have never confirmed that I was the driver.

They ring me every week but other than one conversation when I said I wasn't paying I haven't answered the calls. I have however responded to all correspondence that I've been sent.

They have rejected my offer and in Oct I received Letter of Claim and a "reply form" and "income/expenditure form". They are claiming £90 plus debt costs of £60 total £150! They say the reply form needs to be returned by 19th Nov or they will issue County Court Claim Form.

I have no intention of providing my financial details but was intending ticking box D on the reply form "I dispute the debt" and just returning it with a copy of my original arguments. Is that OK for now or should I be drafting my actual legal Defence at this stage? (hoping not as I don't have much time before deadline!)

Any advice gratefully received.

P.S I have read newbie thread but couldn't see reference to the official "Reply Form"?



  • Redx
    Redx Forumite Posts: 38,084
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edit your post and add some paragraphs so people can read it

    a proper LBC will allow 30 days for the reply or rebuttal, plus it will also give the recipient some financial forms to filll in

    DO issue a rebuttal

    DO NOT fill in their financial forms

    and ASSUME that an MCOL will then come from Northampton CCBC in due course which is when you do the AOS online and draft your defence as well

    the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread post #2 covers all of this, plus other recent threads in a similar vein (you are not the first)
  • loopylou37
    loopylou37 Forumite Posts: 10
    Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    Thank you. Yes the LoC did give a 30 day response deadline. I have no intention of filling in financial forms but will just return the Reply Form then and await Claim Form
    Their letter states you can complete the Reply Form online through their website. Tried that - no evidence of that form anywhere. Started an online chat with them and their employee did not have a clue what form I was talking about and couldn't seem to help. Clever bunch they are

  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Forumite Posts: 17,590
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    As you guessed, you are in the middle of a scam.

    Napier, IPC and now BWLegal ???

    The LBA must be replied to but did they provide proof of the claim ?

    As said, forget the forms

    The phone calls are coming from BWLegal ... YES ?

    Now is the time to read up about BWLegal, their scam phone calls, what to do about them. Then read how they fail in court and will continue to do so whilst they keep pumping out rubbish

    The next thing is the £60 .... THAT IS FAKE

    Were you chased by DRP ??? These are the idiotic debt collectors who also talk rubbish and add a fake £60 on top.

    The principal cost is £90, the ticket charge.
    Plus £25 court fee
    Plus legal fee £50
    Maybe small interest charge

    As Bargepole on here states ....
    The £60 is a artificially invented figure in an attempt to circumvent the Small Claims costs rules using double recovery.

    This £60 is the latest wheeze from BWLegal

    You must call them out on this. They are saying to you it is debt charges, they tell others it's admin, contractual, legal costs, client costs etc etc ....... they don't even know themselves.

    Responding to their LBA means they must reply without fobbing you off because the next stage is court, it's not just you, it's them as well. It's then up to the judge to decide and given some of the rubbish they come up with in court, it's no wonder they are whooped.

    DO NOT USE without prejudice
    This generally means it cannot be shown in court
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Forumite Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has even been suggested that some of these companies have links with organised crime.

    Watch the video of the Second Reading and committee stage in the House of Commons recently. MPs have a very low opinion of this industry.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by in the not too distant future..
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • loopylou37
    loopylou37 Forumite Posts: 10
    Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    edited 19 November 2018 at 1:50PM
    Beamerguy - when they replied to my appeal through the IAS website they uploaded loads of documents, photos of signs, site map and unfortunately a Parking Attendants note (typed word doc) that stated date and time and "[FONT=&quot]Ticket on display expired in October No other ticket found or on display Nothing found on the white list Both ticket machines are working". [/FONT]

    All along I have argued that the machine was not working so it seems to be my word against their attendants.

    The IAS adjudicator stated

    "The Appellant maintains that she tried to obtain a free ticket from the machine outside the store she went in to and spent £ 17.25 at but the machine was not working and she did not obtain and display a free ticket as required. The Appellant did not seek to use the second machine on this site because she did not realise that there was a second one even though it's presence is shown in the photographs. The parking attendant who issued the fixed charge notice provided a note to his employers whilst he was at the scene stating that both machines on site were working during the 10 minute period of time that the Appellant was parked there.

    In view of the above I am satisfied that the fixed charge notice was issued lawfully and that as a result this Appeal must be dismissed"

    Yes the phone calls are coming from BW Legal. I asked him over the phone whether he has any authority from his client to negotiate. He said not, and that instructions from Napier Parking are to recover 100% or pursue to Court. At that point I told him it would be Court then. Thats the last conversation I had with them.

    The LoC states estimated claim is:

    Principal Debt & Initial Legal Costs - £150 (£90 & £60)
    Estimated interest £6.18
    Estimated Court Fees £25
    Estimated Solicitors Costs £50
    Total £231.18

    Thanks all for your help. This website is invaluable. Its given me the motivation to keep fighting so thank you.
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Forumite Posts: 12,963
    10,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    As you are aware, "initial legal costs" is complete crap
    totally unrecoverable against a keeper, unrecoverable against a driver defendant unless they can show how the D has been uneraonsable pursuant to CPR27.14(2)(g)
    Claiming otherwise is misrep so you would of course challenge them to explain how they with to recover them in court when this is expressly disallowed.
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Forumite Posts: 12,963
    10,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    Also, while it is their word against yours, they have to
    a) prove THEIR case
    b) exhibiting a WS from the attendant and
    c) have the attendant actually attend court

    B and C arent hugely likely.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Forumite Posts: 122,714
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Parking Attendants note (typed word doc)

    Email the parking firm's Data Protection Officer (their PRIVACY PAGE tells you their DPO contact) and ask for that word document which is about you/your car, to be emailed to you under the GDPR and your rights as a Subject Access Request.

    Before you say it - yes I know you've seen it already. I am saying ask for that document to be emailed to you by the DPO. Obvious why...check the date it was created, from the metadata.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Forumite Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    £230 is more than the law allows, they are trying to scam you.

    Even if they won in court, the most a judge is likely to award them is iro £175 - £200, the rest is low-rent solicitor scam money. Report them to their regulatory body, the SRA, for claiming for costs they know are not allowed.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • loopylou37
    loopylou37 Forumite Posts: 10
    Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    Thanks all. I'll do all of that.. particularly like the GDPR advice as I am very dubious about that electronic note! I requested a witness statement from their operative quite early on and of course never received one.
    I'll report to SRA, also MP and also to B&M the shop that I was visiting.

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