Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

TheHeatingEngineer

Lijong wrote: »

Sorry I struggle with the sums...

@Paters is right I think. Login to the Cheap Energy Club and enter your tariff details. Push the "get an up to date comparison" button and work with the results provided. If that suggested supplier is there then compare them with the others. If not then that supplier is not suitable for you.

Lijong

I've done that but my tariff isn't listed and the nearest one doesn't compensate for the latest hike so it is outdated. Just have to wait till it is updated I guess.

paters

editor1, I hate to break it to you but your Rumpole of the Bailey impression didn't help anything and that exaggerated £300 loss you claimed shows you're clearly not the expert on "Contract Law" you think you are.



There's no direct evidence OTM even intended to change the fixed tariff membership, it was just a mistake in the MSE article.

TheHeatingEngineer

Lijong wrote: »

Sorry I struggle with the sums...

If you want help with the calculations, can you post how much gas an electricity you use per year?

Get the figures from your bills from the last year or ring your supplier and post here.

paters

Lijong, in cheap energy club change you current supplier details to OTM "Blast November 2018", that should give you comparisons with the Jan 2019 prices.

editor1

@Paters,

£300 quid may not be a lot to you, if so, why are you on this thread moaning about a 45% increase in you DD payment schedule, given £300 is a negligible sum in your opinion? This is fine by me, but my folks are both elderly and on Fixed incomes, hence any savings that can be made for them are positive, whilst any avoidable losses are somewhat negative - hence, when I've look at this issue, namely all changes OFTM has announced I've done so looking at annual costs, which are the figures I actually signed my folks up for. Presently, the cost of their gas and electricity and cost of membership remain the same as when we joined in Mid-March, any change from a membership fee structure would have changed this equation and the issue was raised by MSE, not by me, and I commented on a few legal aspects - not being a practicing Solicitor, and not residing in the UK means from time to time I'm ask a question to a few peers, who happen to be Barristers, that practicing Barristers - obviously their opinion means nothing to you. Again fine by me, but its nice for users of the Forum to know where they stand legally when businesses act in an illegal manner, it also helps when approaching others for assistance, such as Citizens Advice.

cyka

TheHeatingEngineer wrote: »

I can confirm that everyone is still paying the same over the year with 6 months 40% higher and 6 months 40% lower than the annual average payment. As I pointed out when I first arrived here, I thought this might also result in a high credit, but was surprised to see that the credit / debit remains relatively near zero through the annual term as compared with the fixed monthly payment. In that case it gives the customer and supplier a high credit in one period of six months and a high debit in the other.

[FONT=&quot]More disinformation by you. Only after 100s of complaints did Outfox correct their inflated DD figures, which you would have already known if you bothered to read the 36 pages...[/FONT]

TheHeatingEngineer

cyka wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]More disinformation by you. Only after 100s of complaints ...[/FONT]

My comment about the +/-40% is absolutely correct. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

It is irrelevant to compare that comment to what has gone before. I am concerned with the situation now.

If others have received incorrect bills then they have to raise the issue with the supplier and use OFGEM if they get nowhere. And if they can do the maths there may be a case to be had via the DD scheme especially if people can prove they have been mis-charged.

But please, if you are going to comment about maths then support your assertions with a mathematical proof. Then, if proved wrong, I will back down...

bs7

some of the discussion on this thread is seriously weird - some people seem to have a serious obsession with OutFoxTheMarket and trying to come up with some total nonsense. Its curious that there are so many relatively new members that seem intent on playing down the nonsense from OutFoxTheCustomer....







Lets look at the actual series of events:

- on the 9th of July 2018 they advised that they would be putting up their energy prices 6.5%

- on the 2nd of October 2018 they advised that electricity prices would be going up on the 1st of November 2018 by 7.4% - and the price of the membership fee would go up by 7.4% too.

- OutFox at some point in October or November purportedly changed their Terms and Conditions and removed several terms that were generally protective in nature for the consumer. I say 'purportedly' as there is a relatively good argument that these changes are not effect as the contract provided that customers should be given 30 days notice of such changes and to this date there still hasn't been any notice.

- on the 13th of November 2018 they advised that electricity prices would go up a further 12% and gas prices 7.5%

- on the 14th of November 2018 they advised that there would be changes to the Direct Debit and the example provided in the email suggested a 40% increase for payment from October to March

- on the 15th of November 2018 they purported to provide 10 working days notice of the increase of the Direct Debit by 75%. (I should add that they appear to have used white text on a white background in most of these email which would have stopped many people actually seeing what they were saying on these emails).

- on the 16th of November 2018 they suggested you could email photos of your meter for a review or for a refund of "excessive credit"

- on the 17th of November 2018 (albeit the email was dated the 16th) there was an email confirming the Direct Debit (at the 70% increase rate) would be processed on the 1st of December 2018 (note that this email including bank details and appeared to be the official notification of the change of the Direct Debit, also note that no further email at the lower amount has been sent)

- on the 19th of November 2018 I received a generic email with more random nonsense from them trying to justify their changes

- on the 22nd of November 2018 they had apparently "conducted a review of every customer account and have made some revisions to the Direct Debit figures previously sent." and that the Direct Debit would be a 40% increase

- on the 26th of November 2018 they sent a generic email in response to a complaint advising that they would close the complaint in 7 days unless it was followed up (incidentally, a breach of their own complaints policy which provides for a response within 2 days).


- on the 28th of November 2018 they advised that the price would increase in January 2019 by about 20% of electricity and almost 15% for gas.





So since July - for electricity - 6.5% increase and then 7.4% and then 12% and then another 20% in 2019. And for gas - 6.5% increase and then 7.5% with another 15% still to come!!




Its looking increasingly unlikely that OTFM is going to be operating this time next year. Their behaviour makes it abdundantly clear they need cash and quickly or they wouldn't be messing customers this way.


PLEASE don't rely on MSE's energy comparison - as others have said many times, the figures they use are out of date and do not reflect forthcoming changes either.


IF you are on their fixed price fixed term package and can afford the 40% increase (although it's looking likely they've probably debitted the 70% amount - i can't confirm this as have cancelled my Direct Debit in anticipation of moving and since i have a credit balance) then you may as well stick with them PROVIDING you're happy to end up being switched to some other random provider when OutFox end up failing.


IF, however, you cannot afford the extra 40% Direct Debit payments and prefer to pay in equal payments throughout the year then you may wish to look at switching suppliers, but there are two £50 exit fees. As i said earlier, however, OutFox tried to OutFox everyone by sneakily changing their terms and conditions as otherwise everyone on a fixed contract would have been given the option to leave penalty free. They haven't notified anyone of these changes and it is likely that they would lose if a complaint is taken to OfGem or indeed a Small Claim is raised - as they have essentially breached their own contract and terms and conditions.

paters

editor1, I don't think £300 is a negligible amount of money, it's almost 3/4 of my annual energy bill. But, had the MSE article been correct and your parents were left having to pay the service charge, it would only be about an extra £6 per month. It would not be prudent for them to switch at the extra £300 pa cost you estimated, so that loss would be on them. That's what a barrister will tell you too (for a few £100 per hour) and then they will say the extra £50 service charge isn't worth the hassle...



I haven't moaned about anything. I came here to hopefully help people. Just after the winter DD email to advise other people in my situation to look at switching even if it cost a bit more, as I predicted the price would go up again. Then when this last price hike email arrived (I'm still waiting for my switch to go through) I came back to warn people about the sneaky membership / standing charge changes.


I also hoped to help by telling people to ignore your nonsense and maybe bring you back down to earth a bit.