Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

TheHeatingEngineer

editor1 wrote: »

@TheHeatin,

...For others reading this, with a Credit of less than £240, ... OFTM are clear you can reclaim anything above 2 months payments, our excess is equal to two months payments - so on this analysis, best to stay the course.

Maybe use knowledge of usage, charges and payments to calculate the likely balance at the end of the contract and if excessive discuss a DD change with OFTM? :think:

However, as far as OFTM is concerned costs, memberships and standing charges seem to change continually or be imposed - the latest news that OFTM is abolishing the membership fee ... represent a Breach of Contract and clear instance of Miss-Selling, again an issue that will Null & Void any Contract you have.

Try calculating the total costs expected by the end of contract using the new charging scheme figures to estimate the final costs before jumping to conclusions? Your concerns may be justified, but if not then you will just waste time out of an already short life...? :think:

Having run my figures through the Cheap Energy Club tool ... if this happens it's a clear Legal matter, one I'll probably pursue based on advice from Barrister peers.

Time and money are easily wasted. Consider switching? :think:
HTH

Carltonbp

Right done it. Gone to Engie 3 year. Not the cheapest but I think it will work out overall if not better. Have to sort out ODTM being awkward over moving and having enough in my account, looking at comments I don't want there to be too much.

TheHeatingEngineer

A common theme in this thread is to mention the price increases but no one is presenting the actual figures; the actual change in their predicted annual costs.

I have just used the usual MSE Cheap Energy Club tool (again) to check for changes to my costs since switching on the 27th Nov and there was no better deal available. It would have been annoying if there had been a change.

I agree that it's a nuisance when prices rise but I wonder if contributors are calculating how much the rise will really cost them? If the cost increase is significant then surely that is the point at which a switch is considered, not spending time and energy (no pun...) getting upset? Clearly the cost of a switch would be increased if there is an exit fee, but that can be offset against 'savings' from the switch, where 'savings' may be 'the least increase'.

I may be missing something but if there is a price hike and another supplier is shown to be cheaper from that point onwards, then surely it's just a case of switching again? Yes it's a nuisance but it seems to be a largely problem-free process now, and it would save many I have noticed from becoming so distressed. Life is short, so spending time fighting the system seems such a waste.

Domingo

@TheHeatingEngineer...

I haven’t used the MSE Cheap Energy tool myself recently, but most people on this thread have been saying it’s not using the latest Jan 2019 hiked up prices when comparing OFTM. So you’re more than likely getting it coming up saying OFTM is cheaper, however that’s based on data from before the recent 2 or 3 price hikes iirc.

Also, suggesting people do not ‘waste time and energy getting upset’ is perhaps not the best choice of words considering the real trouble and strife this shambles of a company is putting many households through this winter.

Dad_Deep_Pockets

JS2006 wrote: »

I’m in the process of switching supplier after yet another email saying they are increasing their prices as well as almost doubling our direct debit. My question is- if I cancel my direct debit, what will they do? We are over £100 in credit. Just worried they will cut our supply as we have a young baby.

Hi JS2006
OFTM cannot cut off your supply without a warrant from a court to do so. If you can prove you are vulnerable, and I would say having a young baby makes your household temporarily so - they cannot cut you off under any circumstances.
You can cancel your DD at any time and OFTM cannot reinstate it, that is against the banking code. OFTM could charge you a £25 fee for being unable to collect a DD, however, see my earlier post where I was informed by a rep that they will not charge me a fee as I am in credit. If you are in the same or very similar circumstances then they have made a material and evidential statement which could be used against them under Consumer Rights Act 2015.
In short these bunch of amateurs are grasping at straws and breaking numerous codes and regulations to remain solvent. I would not trust them at all.

star_trek_fan

TheHeatingEngineer wrote: »

A common theme in this thread is to mention the price increases but no one is presenting the actual figures; the actual change in their predicted annual costs.

I have just used the usual MSE Cheap Energy Club tool (again) to check for changes to my costs since switching on the 27th Nov and there was no better deal available. It would have been annoying if there had been a change.

I agree that it's a nuisance when prices rise but I wonder if contributors are calculating how much the rise will really cost them? If the cost increase is significant then surely that is the point at which a switch is considered, not spending time and energy (no pun...) getting upset? Clearly the cost of a switch would be increased if there is an exit fee, but that can be offset against 'savings' from the switch, where 'savings' may be 'the least increase'.

I may be missing something but if there is a price hike and another supplier is shown to be cheaper from that point onwards, then surely it's just a case of switching again? Yes it's a nuisance but it seems to be a largely problem-free process now, and it would save many I have noticed from becoming so distressed. Life is short, so spending time fighting the system seems such a waste.

I did calculate the price rise based on the Jan 19 rate and it amounted to an extra £230 per year. My switch goes through on Dec 20th on a 2 year fix and based on foxy's Jan 19 rate I will be better off by £150 pa, assuming that foxy don't increase prices again. Easy decision.

TheHeatingEngineer

Domingo wrote: »

Also, suggesting people do not ‘waste time and energy getting upset’ is perhaps not the best choice of words ...

I did put that in the context of having another choice ie switching. In the absence of another choice then it would be insensitive. But the point is: 'there is a way out...' so although a nuisance, it's not too much of a fag, and it would appear to me IMHO that people are allowing themselves to get stressed instead of walking...

I take your point about the new data. In view of the rapid rate of change in costs, it might be helpful for MSE to include those figures; but then how far ahead to we go a month, two months, twelve months.

Although we have, as individuals, to ensure we are as financially secure as possible now, we also need to stand back and consider why we are in this mess. I remember back in 1979 someone in my department mentioned a news item about the possibility of a computer on each person's desk - a Personal Computer. We all looked at each other and asked what on earth would anyone want one of those for. The consensus was that we would complete our work faster and go home earlier... Naive or what? But that's based on 20-20 hindsight. However the point is - we are clearly digging ourselves as a society into a deeper and deeper hole (see all the anguish in the MSE threads), with everyone pedaling harder and fast but forever getting deeper into a mess.

So maybe the question isn't "how do we get the best energy deal?" but "how do we change the way we manage our society to prevent this situation in the first place?"

Whenever I pose this question there is usually a silence, followed by a strug of the shoulders and a comment as alluded to above "that's too big a problem to solve now - we have to deal with the immediate issue which is to ensure our immediate financial security." This is fair enough - even I need to eat, but it resigns us to the ridiculously life-wasting arguments going on here...

And back to the point I hinted at initially: Rather than fretting so much, we need solutions. So we need news about price rises passing round, followed by options based on real figures to help everyone calculate the best time to switch.

TheHeatingEngineer

star_trek_fan wrote: »

I did calculate the price rise based on the Jan 19 rate ...

Well done you. I would say this thread needs more comments like this because it shows someone using the system and winning - or is it minimising losses?... But your efforts mean you can move on and get on with life.

I have to say that I've noticed life becoming more difficult over the 65 years I've been around, and it continues to do so. But worryingly the vast majority are forced to react "now" so that they can eat next month and have no time to ask "why are we doing this?" and "How is it that we are one of the foremost developed nations in the world and yet we are running around chasing our tails morning, noon and night?" Just a thought...

System

TheHeatingEngineer wrote: »

So maybe the question isn't "how do we get the best energy deal?" but "how do we change the way we manage our society to prevent this situation in the first place?"

And back to the point I hinted at initially: Rather than fretting so much, we need solutions. So we need news about price rises passing round, followed by options based on real figures to help everyone calculate the best time to switch.

The answer is simple: we should have one National supplier with prices set by Ofgem.:(

In truth, we are part of the way there. ML has already posted that using Ofgem’s algorithm he expects the Default Cap to increase from £1137 to £1250 in April. It will then stick at that level for 6 months. As suppliers cannot set SVTs above the Default Cap then this essentially becomes a fix. Unfortunately, setting prices through a rear view mirror will probably result in greater carnage amongst the suppliers who clearly have as much idea about future prices as anybody on this forum.

TheHeatingEngineer

Hengus wrote: »

The answer is simple: we should have one National supplier ...

An interesting point, but are you old enough to remember how things were before Maggie Thatcher's foray into public ownership? Much of industry was nationalised, and if I am not mistaken, it could not manufacture its way out of a paper bag; but there again, I would ask - was public ownership a good idea? It's lead to the situation where mums have to work, the kids are pushed into day-care instead of being looked after at home, and MSE is hosting these discussions on the back of much hardship and anguish. So the best way forward is... ?

In truth, we are part of the way there. ML has already posted that using Ofgem’s algorithm he expects the Default Cap to increase from £1137 to £1250 in April. It will then stick at that level for 6 months. As suppliers cannot set SVTs above the Default Cap then this essentially becomes a fix.

Sorry I'm am late starter in this discussion: could you expand ML and SVTs please?

Unfortunately, setting prices through a rear view mirror will probably result in greater carnage amongst the suppliers who clearly have as much idea about future prices as anybody on this forum.

So perhaps we need a bigger boat...?! (Couldn't resist that opening ) And isn't this what needs to be the focus of the discussion? - understanding why all these discussions are necessary in the first place and solving the wider problem?

The British people do have the control, it just appears to me they don't understand what they are trying to control. The majority don't understand what is happening to our society - they are too busy trying to feed the kids and themselves. Surely it's up to the educated, and the wise (is there anyone?) to point the way forward?