Tenant Nightmare

lucybrown162

sal_III wrote: »

The way I see it, the only hope the tenants have is to spin it as if you ordered them to trow out the furniture and if you haven't done that they would have kept the damaged furniture. And now they are looking to buy a new furniture as a result of your actions. So double check the wording you used when communicating this.

After 6 years you have no role in the emergence of the bugs and provided you brought the pest control promptly after being alerted by the tenants any damage caused by the bugs themselves is not your liability. It's in the same region as the tenant spilling wine, or letting their dog chew the furniture, or a flock of hungry seagulls pooping all over the room, because they forgot to close the window.

Do you have building/content/Landlord insurance? They might include legal advise, if they do, now is a good time to use it.

Thanks. They'd find it difficult to prove I told them to get rid of the furniture that they would otherwise have kept. Looking through emails etc, I can't see anything where I physically told them they needed to get rid of anything from the room. I recall a telephone conversation where I said that anything obviously infested should be removed, upon advice from the pest controller. At the point they asked me to contribute it was clear that they wanted to dispose of the damaged items as in their view they were only fit for disposal. I'm confident I could argue and evidence that my actions in no way led to them disposing of items which otherwise they would have kept.

wesleyad

lucybrown162 wrote: »

Thanks. They'd find it difficult to prove I told them to get rid of the furniture that they would otherwise have kept.

I wouldn't see that as a massive problem even if you had. As you say pest control advised to remove contaminated items, and this would be a completely sensible thing to do. They could have put them in storage if they'd wished. But it was their fault the items became contaminated (assuming this part is agreed by courts) so it's moot.

pinklady21

Are you a member of a landlord's association? If not, then join, well worth it and the cost is an expense you can claim off your tax.
If you are already a member, call their helpline and ask their advice, they have probably come across a similar scenario at some point.

For what it is worth, I do not think you were ever liable here, the infestation was probably brought in / exacerbated by the tenants storing large amount of soft furnishings. I might be thinking about counterclaiming for anything of mine that had been damaged by the beasties.
The fact that you got in and paid for a pest controller may have been more than they were entitled to.
However, I am not a lawyer, so you need to check your legal position.
Best of luck.

hb2

From what I have read, carpet beetle larvae can take up to 2 years, in extreme circumstances, to pupate. The adult then lives a few months at most. On that basis, I don't see the current infestation being anything other than the tenant's fault. I think the OP has been more than generous in getting repeated treatments done.

Norman_Castle

lucybrown162 wrote: »

I recall a telephone conversation where I said that anything obviously infested should be removed, upon advice from the pest controller. At the point they asked me to contribute it was clear that they wanted to dispose of the damaged items as in their view they were only fit for disposal. I'm confident I could argue and evidence that my actions in no way led to them disposing of items which otherwise they would have kept.

Advising them to remove infested items does not mean you are accepting liability for the infestation or damage to the items any more than the pest controller being liable.
Explain to them they've been there six years and that the problem has not been caused by the property.

gingercordial

lucybrown162 wrote: »

ok, let me try and explain it as well as I can:

what has been damaged - their property in the bedroom which was where the main infestation was (as well as a carpet that was mine, but disregard that) which included 3 rugs, a pram, a mattress, a bed frame, a cot bed and several other items

The tenants claimed that all of those items were damaged irretrievably by the pest infestation and provided photographic evidence of this, along with an inventory of the damaged items.

Their small claims court claim states that I instructed them to remove all of their damaged infested personal items so they threw them out. I did ask them to remove them from the property to try and stop the recurrence of the pests on the advice of the pest controller, what they did with them after that was their own decision.

The rug and the 3 rugs referred to was the tenants.

The pest controller, I don't but I could ask him.

Their inventory refers to the list they sent me of their items damaged by the infestation that they wished me to contribute towards.

Hope that makes things clearer, but let me know if not.

How are they suggesting that the bed frame, cot and pram were damaged by the carpet beetles? They eat wool, fur and feathers, not (as far as I know) wood etc. So damage to a bed frame surely could not have been caused by the carpet beetles. Are they trying it on by claiming that their property which got damaged some other way is down to the beetles?

brianposter

It is difficult to see why anyone would think their landlord is responsible for carpet beetle damage unless it occured as soon as the tenants moved in. The claim reflects rather poorly on the intelligence of the tenants.
A simple repudiation of the claim on the basis that the whole affair is the tenants responsibility should not be difficult to prepare.


If you can find something to support this from the internet, that might help. For example I found "If your home is not cleaned or kept up on a regular basis, you can face carpet beetle infestation. Poor housekeeping, stained clothing and careless storage are three risk factors for carpet beetles."
That is from an American site (https://www.abchomeandcommercial.com/blog/what-causes-carpet-beetles/) but a British website would be preferable.

jonnygee2

I was clear that this was not due to a contractual obligation and was purely a goodwill offer.

Generally when you are inside a legal relationship, if you pay for something its taken as acceptance that you admit liability.

Ultimately either it was their liability or yours. You have seriously blurred the lines by paying money for it (which is much more meaningful than any written statement that you 'weren't responsible' or it was just 'goodwill').

You should take no further action at all without proper legal advice. And in general you should consider more carefully the legal relationship you have with your tenants before you go paying out money for stuff.

lucybrown162

jonnygee2 wrote: »

Generally when you are inside a legal relationship, if you pay for something its taken as acceptance that you admit liability.

Ultimately either it was their liability or yours. You have seriously blurred the lines by paying money for it (which is much more meaningful than any written statement that you 'weren't responsible' or it was just 'goodwill').

You should take no further action at all without proper legal advice. And in general you should consider more carefully the legal relationship you have with your tenants before you go paying out money for stuff.

Thanks, I haven't actually paid out anything to date though. They declined (impolitely) the offer I made and a few weeks later handed in their notice on the property.

lucybrown162

brianposter wrote: »

It is difficult to see why anyone would think their landlord is responsible for carpet beetle damage unless it occured as soon as the tenants moved in. The claim reflects rather poorly on the intelligence of the tenants.
A simple repudiation of the claim on the basis that the whole affair is the tenants responsibility should not be difficult to prepare.


If you can find something to support this from the internet, that might help. For example I found "If your home is not cleaned or kept up on a regular basis, you can face carpet beetle infestation. Poor housekeeping, stained clothing and careless storage are three risk factors for carpet beetles."
That is from an American site (https://www.abchomeandcommercial.com/blog/what-causes-carpet-beetles/) but a British website would be preferable.

Helpful thanks. I'll start researching online. I've also contacted the pest controller who came out to see if he would be willing to provide an 'expert witness' type statement