Tenant Nightmare

[Deleted User]

As the pest controller for a written report of what he found, and his opinion on what the cause of the pest problem was.

Do some research online to check how such infestations occur.

I believe that your tenants will have to prove that the infestation was your fault before they have any hope of claiming for the used furniture. At best they will only get the value of the damaged furniture if second hand (as it wasn't new at the time the damage was discovered). If you can, check the photos of the 'damaged' furniture, see how much second hand value will be.

But I doubt it will go that far myself. I don't see how, after 6 years tenancy they can say its down to some negligence on your part. If their arguments in the court papers don't demonstrate this, they almost certainly have not understand the importance of demonstrating this in court. So I would expect the Judge to deal with them in an appropriate manner.

lucybrown162

G_M wrote: »

I think I don't fully understand what the tenants are claiming.

ok, let me try and explain it as well as I can:

what has been damaged - their property in the bedroom which was where the main infestation was (as well as a carpet that was mine, but disregard that) which included 3 rugs, a pram, a mattress, a bed frame, a cot bed and several other items

The tenants claimed that all of those items were damaged irretrievably by the pest infestation and provided photographic evidence of this, along with an inventory of the damaged items.

Their small claims court claim states that I instructed them to remove all of their damaged infested personal items so they threw them out. I did ask them to remove them from the property to try and stop the recurrence of the pests on the advice of the pest controller, what they did with them after that was their own decision.

The rug and the 3 rugs referred to was the tenants.

The pest controller, I don't but I could ask him.

Their inventory refers to the list they sent me of their items damaged by the infestation that they wished me to contribute towards.

Hope that makes things clearer, but let me know if not.

G_M

You have several options:


* pay up for a quiet life but feel you've been 'had' - thus stopping the legal action
* negotiate the amount with the tenants. Reach an agreement on a lesser amount in return for them stopping the legal action
* challange the amounts being claimed in court eg by claiming the items, 2nd hand, were worth less that what is claimed. Do some research into values eg find prices for similar rugs and deduct a % for the rugs' ages
* deny responsibility for the infestation, quoting the length of the tenancy, and the storage habits of the tenants. However

lucybrown162 wrote: »

The tenants claimed that all of those items were damaged irretrievably by the pest infestation and provided photographic evidence of this, along with an inventory of the damaged items.

Their small claims court claim states that I instructed them to remove all of their damaged infested personal items so they threw them out. I did ask them to remove them from the property to try and stop the recurrence of the pests on the advice of the pest controller, what they did with them after that was their own decision.
.

they might claim this was an admission of liability by you, though you could counter-argue it was merely advice to minimise any ongoing risk, not admission of previous liability.

lucybrown162

G_M wrote: »

You have several options:


* pay up for a quiet life but feel you've been 'had' - thus stopping the legal action
* negotiate the amount with the tenants. Reach an agreement on a lesser amount in return for them stopping the legal action
* challange the amounts being claimed in court eg by claiming the items, 2nd hand, were worth less that what is claimed. Do some research into values eg find prices for similar rugs and deduct a % for the rugs' ages
* deny responsibility for the infestation, quoting the length of the tenancy, and the storage habits of the tenants. However


they might claim this was an admission of liability by you, though you could counter-argue it was merely advice to minimise any ongoing risk, not admission of previous liability.

Assuming I wanted to go down the last option of denying responsibility. Could I also have 'up my sleeve' so to speak the more realistic second hand value of the items in the event it comes to that? I've never been in a court/legal situation before so am unclear what sort of things the judge may take into consideration, what sort of things I should put in the defence etc. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated.

Norman_Castle

Are the excess items the property of the girlfriend who left her previous home to live with your tenant and kept items such as the mattress and rugs. If so isn't it possible she bought the beetles with her and they are only being noticed now as the items are packed tightly.
As above, if they've been there six years it unlikely the beetles have been there from the start.

lucybrown162

no, sadly not - she's lived there the whole time with the tenant.

I don't have to prove that they introduced the infestation though, do I? Just that it wasn't my responsibility and nothing I did or didn't do in the property led to the infestation. Pointing the blame towards them may help with that I guess?

Norman_Castle

If the beetles were there first why has the tenant only just noticed them?

Comms69

lucybrown162 wrote: »

Hi
I had a longstanding tenant in my property on an AST. He has resided in the property for coming up to 6 years, with his girlfriend and (now) 2 children.

Over the course of the last few months there have been problems with carpet beetles, mainly in 1 room of the house, and I have had a pest controller visit on 3 occasions so far.

During the process of this, the tenant claimed that some of their property in the bedroom had been damaged and asked if I would be prepared to contribute towards the replacement of these items.

I reviewed the AST for my legal liability and as I suspected I had none:

'The Landlord shall not be required to... keep in repair or maintain anything which the Tenant is entitled to remove from the property.'


What? are you taking the absolute...? If your contractor caused damage, you are responsible.

Nonetheless, after giving it some consideration and in light of the goodwill in the long-standing tenancy arrangement I said that I would be willing to contribute towards the costs subject to seeing photographic and inventory evidence of their damaged property. I was clear that this was not due to a contractual obligation and was purely a goodwill offer.

After a few weeks, the tenant's girlfriend sent me a series of photos and a list of items that had been damaged in the bedroom. Upon reviewing the list of items I felt that the amount that had apparently been damaged was, by both value and volume, significantly in excess of what you would expect there to be kept in 1 small double bedroom. I followed up with an offer back of 1 month rent free in the property, subject to signing a new AST which would tie them in for 6 months again (they would otherwise have been on a 1 month rolling basis). Again, it was noted in my offer that it was based on goodwill only.

The tenant took great offence at this offer, which amounted to around £300 less than they had wanted from me and it became clear through a series of emails that they did not intend to sign up to a new AST and were therefore unwilling to accept the offer. I suspected at this point that they had plans to take my money and run, which had backfired on them when I made it a conditional offer. - are you ok? I mean genuinely; this is ridiculous Their behaviour became more and more difficult during this time and on 6th November they handed in their notice.

Good news, I thought, owing to their difficult behaviour. But then today I have received a Small Claims Court Claim Form from the Tenant's girlfriend detailing the above in their own terms and asking for the full value of their property, around £2,000.

I absolutely intend to fully defend this but have a few options on how I choose to defend which I could do with some advice on:

1) The claim has come through in the name of the tenant's girlfriend who is not a named party on the AST. - how is that relevant? Can/should I base my whole defense on this and just say that I have no legal obligaton toward the claimant, having no contractual relationship with her? - no. that's a terrible defence
2) The AST (to me) is quite clear that I have no responsibility for the contents of the tenants - should I base my whole defense on that without going into the whole goodwill offer, offer not taken up etc etc? - irrelevant
3) Should I provide the whole ins and outs of the above, including (1) and (2) as the initial points but then providing all the emails as evidence of the chain of events as they transpired etc etc? This would not show the tenant in a good light as he and his girlfriend were verbally abusive on several occasions whilst I bit my tongue and remained professional.

And what I would really like to do is put in a counterclaim - cost of pest control visits due to their storing an excessively large amount of soft furnishings inappropriately in a small room?? - you can try

Would really appreciate some advice as I absolutely cannot end up with a CCJ against me - please help!

Settle or get a solicitor.


You have no legal knowledge

lucybrown162

Comms69 wrote: »

Settle or get a solicitor.


You have no legal knowledge

Not particularly helpful Comms69? I have limited legal knowledge, hence why I'm seeking advice on forums. I definitely have significantly more than the tenants however.

I don't understand your point about a contractor. The damage to their property was caused by a pest infestation. No contractor involved, unless you're referring to the pest controller who simply sprayed the house several times?

sal_III

The way I see it, the only hope the tenants have is to spin it as if you ordered them to trow out the furniture and if you haven't done that they would have kept the damaged furniture. And now they are looking to buy a new furniture as a result of your actions. So double check the wording you used when communicating this.

After 6 years you have no role in the emergence of the bugs and provided you brought the pest control promptly after being alerted by the tenants any damage caused by the bugs themselves is not your liability. It's in the same region as the tenant spilling wine, or letting their dog chew the furniture, or a flock of hungry seagulls pooping all over the room, because they forgot to close the window.

Do you have building/content/Landlord insurance? They might include legal advise, if they do, now is a good time to use it.