PayPal asking me to do the impossible in a dispute

adwozere

Hi
I was scammed on Facebook sales after buying a phone for £320 but getting a small radio in the post!
The seller then blocked all communication.
Lucky I paid by PayPal i thought.
I then set up a dispute with PayPal and done everything they asked, the seller never replied to any of there attempts to contact him, so finally PayPal said all I had to do was send back item he sent me then i would get my money back.

I sent item back via Royal Mail 1st class Recorded Delivery But the address PayPal gave me did not exist so parcel was sent back to me!

I rang PayPal and told them and sent them proof of postage and picture of returned parcel but a few days later case was closed in favor of seller due to me not giving PayPal proof of delivery!
I have since told them and told them even put in a complaint but all i get is- WE NEED PROOF OF DELIVERY

I can not believe how unbelievable this is, getting delivery info is impossible if the address isn't there.

Is it possible I could claim via my bank account instead of PayPal as the money come out of my Lloyd's current account via PayPal?

Rosemary7391

That doesn't sound right - my understand was that proof of sending would be enough to prevent this very thing from happening.


You might get better advice on the eBay board even though it wasn't an eBay sale, they're very familiar with PayPal. PM a board guide for the thread to be moved.



I would note that if you send it again, I don't think recorded delivery will cover you for that amount and suggest you send it special delivery.

adwozere

Rosemary7391 wrote: »

That doesn't sound right - my understand was that proof of sending would be enough to prevent this very thing from happening.


You might get better advice on the eBay board even though it wasn't an eBay sale, they're very familiar with PayPal. PM a board guide for the thread to be moved.



I would note that if you send it again, I don't think recorded delivery will cover you for that amount and suggest you send it special delivery.

Thanks for your reply, i am not worried about the amount of cover as i was only sending back a small radio he sent me worth only a few pounds, but sending via special delivery is a good idea as it might track the parcel though the system giving more details when tracking, showing they are unable to deliver

dirtycredit

if you paid with a credit card could you appeal to them? Barclaycard for example are excellent at dealing with issues like this. I'm not sure if paying by paypal affects your rights with the card that you paid with?

adwozere

dirtycredit wrote: »

if you paid with a credit card could you appeal to them? Barclaycard for example are excellent at dealing with issues like this. I'm not sure if paying by paypal affects your rights with the card that you paid with?

my PayPal comes directly from my Bank account not card

soolin

This is certainly odd and is not like any case I've come across before. Usually if a seller does not respond to a case it is closed automatically in the favour of the buyer. Buyer never needs to return item at all and definitely doesn't have to prove delivery, just postage.

It's probably best to get this moved over to the eBay board as someone can find you a link to the PayPal guarantee which you should use to show that their decision does not comply with their own rules.

EDIT: it has just struck me that you definitely paid properly for named goods as a purchase and not as a straight friends and family type payment.

adwozere

soolin wrote: »

This is certainly odd and is not like any case I've come across before. Usually if a seller does not respond to a case it is closed automatically in the favour of the buyer. Buyer never needs to return item at all and definitely doesn't have to prove delivery, just postage.

It's probably best to get this moved over to the eBay board as someone can find you a link to the PayPal guarantee which you should use to show that their decision does not comply with their own rules.

EDIT: it has just struck me that you definitely paid properly for named goods as a purchase and not as a straight friends and family type payment.

Thanks for reply
Yes I paid so i was protected on PayPal, so was covered.
The frustrating part is every message i send them i ask about the false address or ask them to check address they come back to me but totally ignoring the issue over the address being false.

Danceswithhorses

I had big problems with Paypal, when using their guarantee to send a phone back to the original sender and be refunded.
Best think i did was to ring them (or get them to ring me).
Talking to a real person, certainly helped me get my refund, as the online process was not user friendly, and almost lost me my money.

theonlywayisup

adwozere wrote: »

Thanks for reply
Yes I paid so i was protected on PayPal, so was covered.
The frustrating part is every message i send them i ask about the false address or ask them to check address they come back to me but totally ignoring the issue over the address being false.

When you say you paid so you were protected, I am assuming you mean for named goods/services and not a Friends & Family payment.

If that is the case, have a read of the buyer protection -

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_GB#r013

It isn't as cut and dry as one may think.

As a non-exhaustive guide, PayPal may request and require:

the buyer to post back to the Payment Recipient, to PayPal or to a third party (as PayPal may direct) an item that the buyer claims is SNAD and to provide Proof of Delivery (as set out in section 11.9 above). Please take reasonable precautions in re-packing the item to reduce the risk of damage to the item during transit.

the Payment Recipient to accept back the item sent to it by the buyer and refund the buyer the full purchase price plus original postage costs. If the Payment Recipient refuses to accept an item sent back to the Payment Recipient by the buyer at PayPal’s direction), PayPal may award the Claim in favour of the buyer, provided the buyer has provided satisfactory evidence to PayPal that the item was sent to the Payment Recipient at an address supplied to the buyer by PayPal during the Claim process

13.6a requires you to give Paypal proof of delivery, which you cannot give.

Therefore you need to go back to Paypal* and supply the requirements of 13.6b - evidence that you did send the item back to the address supplied to you during the claim. Although a false address is not a pre requisite for the claim going in your favour, you need to convince them in is the same as the seller refusing to accept the item.

Your evidence will be your proof of posting, a screenshot of the address the seller supplied, a screenshot of the section I refer to above, the tracking or detail from Royal Mail showing the address is invalid.

Then you need to cross your fingers.

*always ring Paypal and give the evidence and they will then give you a way to provide it to them from email/attachments.

pmduk

Just don't buy from Facebook, it's full of scams

adwozere

theonlywayisup wrote: »

When you say you paid so you were protected, I am assuming you mean for named goods/services and not a Friends & Family payment.

If that is the case, have a read of the buyer protection -

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_GB#r013

It isn't as cut and dry as one may think.



13.6a requires you to give Paypal proof of delivery, which you cannot give.

Therefore you need to go back to Paypal* and supply the requirements of 13.6b - evidence that you did send the item back to the address supplied to you during the claim. Although a false address is not a pre requisite for the claim going in your favour, you need to convince them in is the same as the seller refusing to accept the item.

Your evidence will be your proof of posting, a screenshot of the address the seller supplied, a screenshot of the section I refer to above, the tracking or detail from Royal Mail showing the address is invalid.

Then you need to cross your fingers.

*always ring PayPal and give the evidence and they will then give you a way to provide it to them from email/attachments.

I am 100% sure i didn't use family and friends so i am covered and have been through 5 weeks of the dispute, in the time I did all that was asked and seller did not reply to anything they PayPal sent him.
PayPal gave me the address to send back too and i did write correctly they have proof of that.
As to proof, i added Recorded delivery tracking number to case as soon as item was sent back.
Then when item was returned i was asked to send proof of postage so i scanned Royal mail tracking receipt and sent that I also scanned the parcel that was returned to me showing same tracking details and a royal mail sticker saying Address Unknown and sent them that.
I then checked the royal mail postcode checker and the place is real but the house number PayPal gave me is not showing.