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Building Suirvey Report Missed Major Structural Issue

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  • EachPenny
    EachPenny Posts: 12,239 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    resumoruf wrote: »
    Probably "supportive" isnt the best description - they dont look to be reinforced with steel, as you would expect. The window is under one of the chimney stacks. It's been added at a later date, looks to be a relatively recent addition, Both lintels are cracked and the sagging is visible.
    You need to get a qualified structural engineer to advise you.

    The lintel and sill would appear to be stone rather than concrete, so I wouldn't expect them to be reinforced with steel. And if they are concrete then you wouldn't be able to tell from just looking at them whether or not they have steel reinforcement. For that you would need to carry out testing to see inside the concrete.

    It isn't clear, but there is possibly a steel lintel above the window, but that needs closer examination by an expert.

    The thing that stands out to me - assuming it isn't a 'trick' caused by the camera lens - is that the lintel above the window is sagging (bending down in the middle) whereas the sill below the window is hogging (bending up in the middle). If the picture accurately represents what is going on then that is unusual. :huh:

    But of more concern to me is the vertical crack running up from the top of the window level for about 15 courses approximately along the line of the end of the quoins. At least two bricks have cracks through them, and you can see what appears to be an attempt(s) to repoint the joins along the line of the crack.

    It also appears the render below the window level is relatively recent - I'd want to know what is going on underneath that.

    Don't get too hung up on the wall being single skin - in buildings of that age it is common. It is also not especially relevant that that wall is red brick rather than whatever the front and rear elevations are constructed from - again it was relatively common for theVictorians to use cheaper materials in locations which were not the principal elevations.

    But you do need a professional qualified structural engineer to tell you what is going on around that window and why you have a crack running up the wall... and whether it is likely (as I suspect) to have been there when the survey was done.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
  • I agree - it might not have a cavity wall but it certainly looks like it might be two bricks' thickness.

    I agree with that.

    But there are a couple of confusing things outstanding.
    1) Why has the window sill cracked? Surely there's no weight on that.
    2) Where exactly is this chimney stack that's supposedly being held up by this window's lintel? I can't picture the layout of the chimney that somehow makes it sit above the window at all - after in it's not visible outside and it can't be inside else it would block the window.
    In any case the wall is soooo high above the window that the weight would be spread out - lintels mostly only need to support the triangle of bricks that is immediately above them. Now if the lintel is somehow supporting the upstairs floor, then that's different...
  • EachPenny
    EachPenny Posts: 12,239 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    1) Why has the window sill cracked? Surely there's no weight on that.
    My wholly non-professional opinion is visualising the sill as a cantilever... firmly embeded and supported on the right-hand end, whereas the left hand end is supported by a wall which is no longer where it was, and is having to bear some of the load of the wall above which is attempting to follow the lower part of the wall on its downward journey.

    In other words, the wall we cannot see around the corner to the left is subsiding and 'dragging' part of the wall we can see down with it.

    The vertical crack shows signs the movement is downwards and outwards (to the left as we view it) - which tends to put the blame on the better quality double wall rather than the single-skin wall we are looking at.

    But I'd want to see the chimney and what that was doing before being certain that was what was going on.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
  • DaftyDuck
    DaftyDuck Posts: 4,609 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    That really looks like a solid wall, two bricks thick. Note the Flemish bond, indicative, but not proof.

    The crack appears relatively recent - the fifteen years at most.

    Can we have a much wider picture of the wall and surrounds, plus inside window....

    Note the cracked brick and repair to mortar three to eight rows left side above window, and possible repair stepping up from right top corner of the window.

    Close up of cracks as well, please!
  • stator
    stator Posts: 7,441 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Is that part of your house visible from Google Streeview?


    If so, can you see the cracks?
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    DaftyDuck wrote: »
    That really looks like a solid wall, two bricks thick. Note the Flemish bond, indicative, but not proof.

    Yes, that's what I thought, (although I didn't know that is what it was called) if that is a single brick wall someone went to a lot of trouble cutting bricks is half to make it appear as if it were two bricks thick.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
  • DaftyDuck
    DaftyDuck Posts: 4,609 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Yes, that's what I thought, (although I didn't know that is what it was called) if that is a single brick wall someone went to a lot of trouble cutting bricks is half to make it appear as if it were two bricks thick.

    Well, that can and is done, so I couldn't be sure. My house is built with Flemish bond, and it's old. We've had an extension to match, so thousands of bricks had to be cut to match... as the new wall has to have a cavity to meet building regs. But, that wall looks old, the window is set for a double brick layer, the corner stone looks double thickness, and there would be more bowing likely on a single skin.

    I was looking on a phone; now I'm on a tablet, I'm sure it's double brick....but I have been wrong often enough... But there is still damage, and I would want to know why too!

    It's a new window, and part of the fault may be owing to that. However, the matching break on the lower cill is concerning, and I'd want to know more about that render too.
  • martindow
    martindow Posts: 10,564 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Houses of this age sometimes relied on the window frame to have the structural strength to support the wall above. Replacing windows like this with upvc is inadequate and the stone lintel was probably never intended to take the load.


    I'm surprised that the surveyor didn't notice this and comment on it. Is the photo taken from next door's land that the surveyor wouldn't have accessed?
  • If you had the heating on 24/7 and couldn’t get the room above 10 degrees then assuming it’s not open to the elements, the boiler and/or rads aren’t big enough for a house of this age/spec.
    Signature on holiday for two weeks
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