Building Suirvey Report Missed Major Structural Issue

resumoruf

Hi,
Myself and my partner bought a house in January 2018. We had a RICs Building Survey completed as it's a detached property built c1890. It highlighted a few concerns, eg some damp, some insulation needed in the roof, but nothing major. The survey valued it at £220k, we paid £230k. The banks valuation (bank guy came to the house) was £230k.

Not too long after we moved the beast from the east hit and one side of the house was very cold and draughty. We have a 3yo daughter and have a thermometer in her bedroom and with the heating on 24/7 her room got down to 10 degrees and was usually around 12 degrees C. It wasnt pleasant and knew we'd now have to divert serious funds to get that sorted as it was miserable.

So we spent thousands on adding in kingspan into stud internal walls. During the work our builder realised that the cold side of the house was only a single skin. Three sides of the house are large stone bricks and one side, the single skin side, is red brick. Its the only detached house on the street, the rest are in in rows of at least three houses. On the single skin side is the kitchen and that has small window, accesible by the survyor, through which you can clearly see is a single skin. The window is about 2ft x 1ft and just above head height. The lintels above and below the window (which are builder says are decoractive rather than supportive) are both cracked vertically down the middle from the weight of the chimney stack pressing down through the wall into the window. There is also some vertical cracking through the mortar. The builder noticed the issue when insulating the attic wall and then further inspection confirmed the single skin. The builder has advised that the wall needs a 2nd skin to built and pinned to the exisitng wall to ensure structural integrity at a cost of about £10k. The Purlins are covered by large lead crosses and are clearly visible. All of the side of the house was/is available to view without any obstruction. The surveyor even took photos of what he said were damp patches on that wall so god knows how he's missed everything else. An complication with this is that the wall borders our neighbiours drive (there was 2 new houses built on land which used to belong to our property - probabaly where the rest of the row wasnt built) so that may throw up some difficulties

Incidentally We met someone who had lived in the house previously as a tenant and the story is that the orginal builder ran out of funds to finish a row of houses but not sure how they would know that.

Also on the front of the house is a brick light well built so the basement window receives some light. This is built slightby below ground level. This had come away from the front of the house by 2 inches on each side. As soon as our builder saw this he said it was due to a collapsed drain under the light well as a drain pipe runs near it. We had this dug up and new pipe installed as the pipe overflowed badly during rain. There was a collapsed clay pipe underneath.

There was zero mention of any of these obvious (to a professional) issues in the Building Survey report. We didnt cheap out on the report, it is the type of report RICs recommend for buying older properties. The builder has read through our report to and said there nothing in there. Our builder builds houses BTW. He has a lot of experienece and has been in the trade for 30 plus years.

If the survey had picked this up there is no way we would have bought the house.

We'd like to be able to claim back work to build the wall, insulate the house, property valuation difference, the cost of the survey, rebuilding the light well, costs to compensate our neighbour, purchase any land to build the wall on etc.

Any thought on next steps and where we stand?

Thanks in advance

societys_child

What has the surveyor said?

stator

The fact that the wall is single skin is not an issue, there are plenty of old houses with single skin walls and there is nothing wrong with them.
The fact that it is cold is not an issue either, it's to be expected with older houses and surveyor's would not comment on how energy efficient the house is.


If you have photos provided by the surveyor, do they show cracks visible on the wall when he did the survey?


If there were cracks and he didn't see them or report on them, then you have a good claim for negligence and may be able to claim off his insurance.


Your shopping list of things you want is unrealistic. If you do make a claim against the surveyor you will potentially get the structural defect repaired and the insurance will pay for it/reimburse you. You won't get money for insulation or to keep your neighbour happy, you won't get any loss of value of your home, since you hare having it repaired.

societys_child

The builder has advised that the wall needs a 2nd skin to built and pinned to the exisitng wall to ensure structural integrity at a cost of about £10k

Odd that it's stood since around 1890 but a builder says it now needs 10k spending on it to ensure it's structural integrity? Did the builder inhale a sharp intake of breath when he said this?

We'd like to be able to claim back work to build the wall, insulate the house, property valuation difference, the cost of the survey, rebuilding the light well, costs to compensate our neighbour, purchase any land to build the wall on etc.

Good luck . .

EachPenny

resumoruf wrote: »

Myself and my partner bought a house in January 2018. We had a RICs Building Survey completed as it's a detached property built c1890.
...
During the work our builder realised that the cold side of the house was only a single skin. Three sides of the house are large stone bricks and one side, the single skin side, is red brick. Its the only detached house on the street, the rest are in in rows of at least three houses. On the single skin side is the kitchen and that has small window, accesible by the survyor, through which you can clearly see is a single skin. The window is about 2ft x 1ft and just above head height. The lintels above and below the window (which are builder says are decoractive rather than supportive) are both cracked vertically down the middle from the weight of the chimney stack pressing down through the wall into the window. There is also some vertical cracking through the mortar. The builder noticed the issue when insulating the attic wall and then further inspection confirmed the single skin. The builder has advised that the wall needs a 2nd skin to built and pinned to the exisitng wall to ensure structural integrity at a cost of about £10k. The Purlins are covered by large lead crosses and are clearly visible. All of the side of the house was/is available to view without any obstruction. The surveyor even took photos of what he said were damp patches on that wall so god knows how he's missed everything else. An complication with this is that the wall borders our neighbiours drive (there was 2 new houses built on land which used to belong to our property - probabaly where the rest of the row wasnt built) so that may throw up some difficulties

If the house has stood since 1890 with a single skin wall then why does it suddenly need a 'second skin' wall now?

Is your builder a structural engineer?

If the lintels are "decorative rather than supportive" then how is the weight of the chimney pressing down on them? If they have weight on them then by definition they are "supportive" :huh:

Something I see as a possibility is the surveyor has seen things which are "decorative" and not commented on them because they are not structural components. Things in old houses are often cracked... if they aren't intended to have a structural purpose then they wouldn't necessarily be noteworthy.

As for building a second skin wall... if this really is necessary then you might need to consider having it built on the inside of the house if the neighbour is not willing to let you build on their land. An insurer (if it comes to that) is likely to insist on doing it this way rather than buying land and paying out compensation to a third party.

resumoruf

EachPenny wrote: »

If the house has stood since 1890 with a single skin wall then why does it suddenly need a 'second skin' wall now?

Is your builder a structural engineer?

If the lintels are "decorative rather than supportive" then how is the weight of the chimney pressing down on them? If they have weight on them then by definition they are "supportive" :huh:

Something I see as a possibility is the surveyor has seen things which are "decorative" and not commented on them because they are not structural components. Things in old houses are often cracked... if they aren't intended to have a structural purpose then they wouldn't necessarily be noteworthy.

As for building a second skin wall... if this really is necessary then you might need to consider having it built on the inside of the house if the neighbour is not willing to let you build on their land. An insurer (if it comes to that) is likely to insist on doing it this way rather than buying land and paying out compensation to a third party.

Here's a photo of the window;
h t t p s://i.imgur.c o m/wUbtB9g.jpg

You'll need to remove the spaces

The builders not structral engineer. He has advised to get a qualified expert in to confirm / deny his observations as his does not have the neecssary qualifications and is making these observations from the experience of building houses.

Probably "supportive" isnt the best description - they dont look to be reinforced with steel, as you would expect. The window is under one of the chimney stacks. It's been added at a later date, looks to be a relatively recent addition, Both lintels are cracked and the sagging is visible.
The surveyor picked up on minor things such as an old beam in the cellar above a doorway, which was passed its best ,to be replaced but he missed the cracked lintels, the cracked surrounding brickwork and the fact that the single skin could be seen through the window. He's also missed the lead covered purlins. Purlins visible on the other side of the house, which is not red brick. This is the only red brick wall, the other 3 walls are all yorkshire yellow brick and none the surrounding houses have red brick external end walls. But he has photographhed and reported damp on the same exterior wall. There are other things where he has gone into a lot of detail so these missed things would have warranted at least a note even to cover his own back. It was buildings survey, not a homebuyers report.

Regarding the internal skin this is something we have thought about. The disruption and fact we already had insulation added internally, as well as reducing the room size would be annoying.

Cheers

resumoruf

societys_child wrote: »

What has the surveyor said?

We've not yet approached them.
My partner has spoken with some lawyers (not ina an offical capacity) as she works for a Law firm and we have had a friend who works in insuarnce look at out insurance policy / T&Cs..
We are still gathering information to try and understand the best path to take.

resumoruf

stator wrote: »

The fact that the wall is single skin is not an issue, there are plenty of old houses with single skin walls and there is nothing wrong with them.
The fact that it is cold is not an issue either, it's to be expected with older houses and surveyor's would not comment on how energy efficient the house is.


If you have photos provided by the surveyor, do they show cracks visible on the wall when he did the survey?


If there were cracks and he didn't see them or report on them, then you have a good claim for negligence and may be able to claim off his insurance.


Your shopping list of things you want is unrealistic. If you do make a claim against the surveyor you will potentially get the structural defect repaired and the insurance will pay for it/reimburse you. You won't get money for insulation or to keep your neighbour happy, you won't get any loss of value of your home, since you hare having it repaired.

Thanks for the insight.

Maybe the single skin isnt an issue per se but in the situations context there are four external walls and one of them is red brick, the others are yellow yorksire brick and are double skinned. I think he he should have picked up on this and it maybe should have raised suspicions as none of the surrounding houses of the same era have have red brick walls. As a surveyor, and due to the level of detail he went into on minor things, i would expect an expert to at least make note that they could see a single skin wall, as it's visible through the small window, and comment that this could be an issue- he commented on the attic roof potentially lacking insulation. My view would be if you can comment on potentail insulation issues that you cant see then you should comment on potential insulation issues you can see.

Reagrds to photos he hasnt taken any or even mentioned the cracks, or the visible leaded purlins. The purlins on the opposite yellow brick side aren't visible. I think that should have warranted an observation in a Buildings Survey.

photo here (remove the spaces); h t tps://i.imgur.co m/wUbtB9g.jpg

I agree re the shopping list but we might as well ask.

LandyAndy

https://i.imgur.com/wUbtB9g.jpg

teneighty

Looking at the photo of the window it isn't clear that it is a single skin wall. In fact from the brick bond it suggests it is a 9 inch wall.

How deep is the internal reveal to that window? I'm assuming if it is a single skin wall (4 inch) the window is flush with the wall internally?

TrickyDicky101

teneighty wrote: »

Looking at the photo of the window it isn't clear that it is a single skin wall. In fact from the brick bond it suggests it is a 9 inch wall.

How deep is the internal reveal to that window? I'm assuming if it is a single skin wall (4 inch) the window is flush with the wall internally?

I agree - it might not have a cavity wall but it certainly looks like it might be two bricks' thickness.