State pension age equalised for men and women - MSE News

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  • Paul_HerringPaul_Herring Forumite
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    ... in the sense that any man reaching State Pension Age (SPA) from now on will reach it at the same time as a woman with the same date of birth.

    At the moment.

    But not in the sense that, in general, women will still get the state pension for about 3 years longer.

    But don't expect the #GRASPI lot to mention this bit... ;)
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  • mgdavidmgdavid Forumite
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    Yes I saw that elsewhere a few days ago too; was surprised it didn't seem to have caused a big ripple on here...
    The questions that get the best answers are the questions that give most detail....
  • SilvertabbySilvertabby Forumite
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    At the moment.

    ... ;)
    Originally posted by Paul_Herring
    mgdavid wrote: »
    Yes I saw that elsewhere a few days ago too; was surprised it didn't seem to have caused a big ripple on here...

    It's deja vu all over again. I initially thought that Backto60 just wanted the 2011 changes overturned but no, they too, think it is fair and equitable for all women born on or before 31 December 1959 to receive their State pensions from 60 but that women born on or after 1 January 1960 did have enough notice of the changes and so will be happy to wait until they are 66+.

    A judicial review means just that - it will be looked at, but the decision could well be that the changes are justified. End of (hopefully!).

    I read somewhere that putting back women's State pension age to 60 would cost £5B just for the arrears. As any such changes would also have to apply to men (sex equality legislation) so that's £10B plus all the extra pensions going forward. Would Backto60/Graspi like to tell us where they think that money should come from ? The NHS, perhaps ?
  • Paul_HerringPaul_Herring Forumite
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    Would Backto60/Graspi like to tell us where they think that money should come from ?

    "Not them," I'm guessing.

    Until it turns out they've spoilt it for everyone else who wasn't a woman born in the 1950's. NI on pensions/all income no matter what your age (Granny Tax II) anyone?
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  • NualNual Forumite
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    I held back from adding to this thread when it started, and still think some of the comments might be a wind up - but....

    The Sex Equality Legislation introduced in 1975, 40 odd years ago, has still not equalised the pay gap between men and women.

    Women are way more likely to be the main carers for children and for frail/disabled family members than men, and their prospects in the workplace are affected accordingly https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/familiesandthelabourmarketengland/2017
    Note that the statistics show that things have been slowly changing over the past two decades, ie when the WASPI women were late 30s/ 40. Hence they had around 20 years of greater disadvantage in the workplace and slightly less disadvantage over the past 20 years - except that those advantages have been experienced by the generation coming after them. Equal pay for work of equal value is still being challenged and won in the courts under this legislation.

    The WASPI women were very likely to have or be female family members who did not work outside the home and were soley dependent on their husband's income and pension, while providing the home management and childcare that supported their man to earn.

    https://www.web40571.clarahost.co.uk/statepensionage/SPA_history.htm explains how the state pension has changed, and how in 1940 women's pension age was cut to 60. Most women were younger than their husbands, who couldnt get the higher married rate until their wives turned 65.. The majority of women had no pension of their own.


    I was born in 1956. My mother, aunts, grandmothers didnt work outside the home. I did, but experienced the sex discrimination of the 80's and 90's, and beyond. I brought up two children and worked part time until the youngest was 2, made redundant while on maternity leave etc, then full time: I was the main carer for my mother in her last 5 years and worked full time. Many women of my age group would not have been able to do this - it nearly broke me and certainly affected my promotion prospects.

    I knew nothing at all about pensions until I was well into my 50s. The financial crash in 2007 and subsequent threat of redundancy led to me trying to understand when and what I would get. I learned a lot on here, cut my spending and paid as much as I could to boost my DB pension while supporting the children through a combined 8 years of Uni.

    I am now retired with another 3 years to go to SPA. I am financially ok , and I know I am one of the lucky ones. I have friends struggling because they cant afford to go early and were similarly affected by sex discrimination and childcare responsibilities for much of their careers.

    I am not a member of WASPI but I understand their anger and feel that it is a pity they are so muddled in putting their message across.
  • Paul_HerringPaul_Herring Forumite
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    By all means, support those that are financially precarious, i.e. target any funding of those in (and near) the relevant group to those that are actually suffering (i.e. both men and women, born n the 1950's or not,) as opposed to every single living female born between Jan 1st 1950 and Dec 31st 1959, whether they need it or not.

    But the impression given (wholly unintended) is that those most vocal about WASPI could do with the money to shop at Waitrose, instead of John Lewis.
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  • zagfleszagfles Forumite
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    Nual wrote: »
    I held back from adding to this thread when it started, and still think some of the comments might be a wind up - but....

    The Sex Equality Legislation introduced in 1975, 40 odd years ago, has still not equalised the pay gap between men and women.
    Equality in rules and even equality of opportunity doesn't necessarily lead to equality of outcome.

    This happens in lots of other areas, but it's strange how a 10-20% gender pay difference seems to be a scandal when a 300% difference is suicide rates, a 700% difference in sleeping on the streets, and a 2000% difference in the prison population doesn't seem to be. Not to mention life expectancy.

    But nobody seems to be arguing that men and women should have different rules in any of these area to make up for differences in outcomes. That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

    Women are way more likely to be the main carers for children and for frail/disabled family members than men, and their prospects in the workplace are affected accordingly https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/familiesandthelabourmarketengland/2017
    And carers get credits for the state pension, including HRP since 1978 which has now been converted to credits for anyone with a SPA from 2010 (ie anyone affected by the increases in SPA).
    Note that the statistics show that things have been slowly changing over the past two decades, ie when the WASPI women were late 30s/ 40. Hence they had around 20 years of greater disadvantage in the workplace and slightly less disadvantage over the past 20 years - except that those advantages have been experienced by the generation coming after them. Equal pay for work of equal value is still being challenged and won in the courts under this legislation.
    Yes it's good to challenge inequality, isn't it? Today is a landmark day for equality.
    The WASPI women were very likely to have or be female family members who did not work outside the home and were soley dependent on their husband's income and pension, while providing the home management and childcare that supported their man to earn.

    www.web40571.clarahost.co.uk/statepensionage/SPA_history.htm explains how the state pension has changed, and how in 1940 women's pension age was cut to 60. Most women were younger than their husbands, who couldnt get the higher married rate until their wives turned 65.. The majority of women had no pension of their own.

    I was born in 1956. My mother, aunts, grandmothers didnt work outside the home. I did, but experienced the sex discrimination of the 80's and 90's, and beyond. I brought up two children and worked part time until the youngest was 2, made redundant while on maternity leave etc, then full time: I was the main carer for my mother in her last 5 years and worked full time. Many women of my age group would not have been able to do this - it nearly broke me and certainly affected my promotion prospects.

    I knew nothing at all about pensions until I was well into my 50s. The financial crash in 2007 and subsequent threat of redundancy led to me trying to understand when and what I would get. I learned a lot on here, cut my spending and paid as much as I could to boost my DB pension while supporting the children through a combined 8 years of Uni.

    I am now retired with another 3 years to go to SPA. I am financially ok , and I know I am one of the lucky ones. I have friends struggling because they cant afford to go early and were similarly affected by sex discrimination and childcare responsibilities for much of their careers.

    I am not a member of WASPI but I understand their anger and feel that it is a pity they are so muddled in putting their message across.
    Indeed.
  • chucknorrischucknorris Forumite
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    SnowMan wrote: »
    We now have equality from today :beer::beer:

    ... in the sense that any man reaching State Pension Age (SPA) from now on will reach it at the same time as a woman with the same date of birth.

    Although the next men and women to reach SPA won't do so until 6th March 2019. I guess those at the Pension Service who process new State Pension claims can have the Winter off; they may just have to pop in on a Tuesday to process those claiming State Pensions after have deferred them past SPA :snow_laug

    But what have you gained? You didn't get anything extra, women just lost something. The real issue is to secure your own financial future, rather than defeat women in a competition of 'who is worst off'.
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  • edited 6 December 2018 at 9:10PM
    SnowManSnowMan Forumite
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    edited 6 December 2018 at 9:10PM
    But what have you gained? You didn't get anything extra, women just lost something. The real issue is to secure your own financial future, rather than defeat women in a competition of 'who is worst off'.
    If you believe that people should be treated equally regardless of their gender, then you should be happy about any change that brings that nearer to reality, whether that be something that rights injustices that affect women or injustices that affect men.

    I'm pleased to see this change, and I'm pleased to see changes that tackle inequalities that women face.

    I don't judge things on whether I've gained or lost but on whether any change is fair, and have no interest in defeating anyone, so please don't infer on zero evidence that I am motivated by that.
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  • ThrugelmirThrugelmir Forumite
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    Nual wrote: »
    I have friends struggling because they cant afford to go early

    How many people of either sex can really afford to retire early? Unless they've made a conscious effort to save or been fortunate enough to have worked in the public sector in some form. State pension has never been adequate by itself.
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