Barclays Withdrawal limits / fraud repayment - issue, need help

Centrile

Hello,

I have recently (last night) had around £2400 stolen from my bank account, not sure how they got my PIN number, i can only assume they watch/recording devices on a cash point i used in London then they pick pocketed me and stole my card when i went into a bar 100m down the road. Knowing how Barclays work its very likely they will try blame me with being negligent even though i dont believe i was, but i have 2 issues i am hoping people with more knowhow can assist with.

Issue 1 - Cash withdrawal limits from unmanned machines.

The reason was so much was taken from my account is due to barclays allowing upto £2800 being allowing to be withdrawn from a unmanned machine, this can be done by the following

- Normal ATM withdrawals up £300 (they stole £300, this way)
- Assisted Service devices (ASD) up to £2500 (they stole £1500 this way via 3x £500 cash withdrawals in a Asda Barclays branch at 01:52 in the morning which means there is no barclays staff in the branch)

The barclays cash withdrawal limits state £300, my barclays App states a limit of £300 and there is no method to restrict, reduce or protect your account on these ASD cash withdrawal machines.

What rights do i have to argue that these machines are 'Cash Machines' based on they allow someone to withdraw money from an automated machine? is there any FSA regs around this? as i believe Barclays are being negligent with regards to protecting their customers against cash withdrawal fraud.

Issue 2 - Immediate refund of unauthorised payments

Barclays have refunded me the £300 which was taken from the ATMs, the other £500 are in a pending state and they have advise this can be refunded after its moved from pending, but will not refund me the £1500 which was from the ASD. They advise that they can not do anything until a case manager has picked up this fraud case which has an SLA of 10 days.

FSA states that the bank must refund me immediately unless they can prove i authorised the payments and the person having my PIN is not proof, or i am involved in the fraud itself which they can prove. of course Barclays can not prove anything with either of the points above, what can i do and who can i complain to (outside of Barclays with regards to this?)

I have logged a complaint with Barclays for both of the issues above but any help and assistance would be greatly appreciated

Thank you
Adam

agrinnall

Did you know that the card had been stolen before some/all of the withdrawals were done? I ask because although I'm not, and never have been, a Barclays customer they are currently running an advert showing a customer having the ability to block a card themselves.

eskbanker

Centrile wrote: »

FSA states that the bank must refund me immediately unless they can prove i authorised the payments and the person having my PIN is not proof, or i am involved in the fraud itself which they can prove. of course Barclays can not prove anything with either of the points above

It's probably worth doing some research in this area before firing off complaints based on misunderstandings and partial knowledge - the actual FCA steer, as at https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account, is

In most cases the bank must refund the payment without undue delay and by the end of the business day following the day on which it became aware of the problem, unless it has reasonable grounds for suspecting that you have acted fraudulently.

so the threshold is 'reasonable grounds for suspecting' rather than 'proof'.

Having said that, I don't see how they'd stump up immediately for some of the money, I'd have thought they'd reimburse all or nothing....

Centrile

agrinnall wrote: »

Did you know that the card had been stolen before some/all of the withdrawals were done? I ask because although I'm not, and never have been, a Barclays customer they are currently running an advert showing a customer having the ability to block a card themselves.

Yeah you can block it but i didnt know until they actually sent me a text saying they suspect fraud and automatically blocked my account, didnt know i had my card stolen until this (i had cash)

@eskbanker - This is due to the fact that do not consider transaction on this new ASD devices as card fraud, they treat it more like bank account fraud - 2 different processes, and the bank account fraud they will not automatically refund. - even though it was fraud by using my debit card and PIN to gain money.

mgdavid

I'm unclear what these ASD devices are, could you explain / expand please?

Thrugelmir

Centrile wrote: »

They advise that they can not do anything until a case manager has picked up this fraud case which has an SLA of 10 days.

Safe to assume that who ever withdrew the money would have been caught on film.

ColdIron

mgdavid wrote: »

I'm unclear what these ASD devices are, could you explain / expand please?

In branch machines

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5582854/assisted-service-counters

18cc

Seems like an ATM is just that an ATM and the money that was taken from that has been refunded immediately

the ASD devices are supposed replacements for cashiers at a branch you might almost call them robo cashiers you operate them using your debit card but then you can do pretty much everything that you could do with a cashier t

there might be a human overseeing a number of these devices

I guess Barclays are saying this is a different kind of fraud i.e. not ATM fraud and needs to be dealt with in a different way I think it's splitting hairs myself but then again I don't work for Barclays

BooJewels

I realise that this doesn't address the OP's issue directly (or help them now), as there's nothing I can offer on that matter other than sympathy, but it does bring home the value of some bank advice we had recently.

We were updating the kind of current account we had and paying off the overdraft and had some spare cash and wanted 2 current accounts to keep it in separate pots - as the benefits were better. The bank lady suggested to keep the bulk of any spare cash in a savings account and transfer cash into the current account as needed - as it only takes seconds these days. She stated the main reason for this being that if your cards are stolen, the most they can get from a savings account is the daily cash withdrawal limit - in our case 300 quid. They can't go on a spending spree with your pennies or make multiple withdrawals.

So if you (i.e. anyone reading) have more cash than you need access to immediately - it might be worth putting the excess somewhere safer in this regard - even if it's an account that you don't even carry the cards for - or only carry a card for an account with walking around funds. I just mention this because we've been talking about this very thing today.

jonesMUFCforever

The only problem with this - most best savings rates are for current accounts eg Lloyds Halifax Santander Nationwide etc etc

BooJewels

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

The only problem with this - most best savings rates are for current accounts eg Lloyds Halifax Santander Nationwide etc etc

Indeed, that was precisely why we were going that route initially. We had to decide what was most important to us - we thought, at this time, that instant access and this security were best for us just at the moment.

Maybe the best solution is to not use accounts with high balances, maintained for best benefits, as your walking around card.