Old Orange 'Out here' package being cancelled

pmduk

eDicky wrote: »

No, your phone will still work on EE 2G.

Well, only as long as 2G lasts

eDicky

pmduk wrote: »

Well, only as long as 2G lasts

... Or the phone itself...

alexpeck

Hi all,

I was one of the people involved over a decade ago when, with just a few weeks notice, Orange first reduced the terms of this plan to 3 inclusive messages a day, then to zero.

For those who aren't aware, Orange Out Here was an add-on pack, with it's own terms and conditions sold for about £25 in the early 2000's. These were the days when SMS cost 12p each, so buying a pack was promoted as being a good thing. The packs came with an Orange merchandise pack and the inclusive SMS was 'for life'.

Specifically, the Terms of the pack stated that they overrode the network terms, and in all advertising and those terms stated that the 5 inclusive messages per day were 'for life'. There was no condition allowing Orange to vary the terms or end the deal. That was what forced Orange to u-turn and re-instate the inclusive messages for the affected subscribers, plus provide a credit in compensation for all users for the 'lost' messages.

Yes, these days there are far fewer people affected (and less people care as SMS are basically 'free' on most plans anyway) but it is still a change. Orange hasn't ceased to exist, it's been taken over, so this add-on would still apply to any 'new' underlying tariff that the phones are forcibly moved onto. EE won't see it that way though, so the question is whether they will proactively credit an equivalent amount of SMS each month (I mean, it's simple to credit 150 messages / month and won't cost them much in lost revenue) or whether we'll have to go through the same hassle as last time (just in a more scaled down way!)...

Happy to correspond via PM if anyone is affected and passionate about it.

Thanks!

alexpeck

(I don't think EE would be acutely aware of this: it wasn't like the previous times where Orange actively targeted these pre-paid packs, this is just a side effect of sweeping everyone into EE and killing off the legacy T-Mo & Orange systems / brands. They might, if we approach them, just credit the 150 SMS / month as a block rather than trying to credit or set up a similar 5 a day allowance as we have now. For the reserve tank calls, that infrastructure is probably lost but it was a fantastic feature we purchased and I'm unsure why it never became mainstream).

Leigh79

I was one of those on Orange Out Here and I'm really fuming after forcibly being put on to new terms and conditions. 5 free texts a day was all we really needed and now we're on a ridiculous 15p a text :-O I emailed last week and got no response (quoting contract law and how they can't forcibly put you on to another contract). I have now rung today and spoke to a minion's manager and the most they would offer me was £30 compensation. I feel I have run out of options as they claim the contract was with Orange. If anyone else succeeds, I would be interested to hear how. I shall obviously be moving away from EE once this credit runs out. Feeling like I've failed though

mobilejunkie

They've offered you something outstanding. Orange is now long gone and you are well outside any minimum term contract. Ridiculous to complain and amazing to expect compensation. Thank them and move on.

alexpeck

MobileJunkie: If we "thank them and move on" then as Leigh mentioned we would end up paying £273.75 per year (5 SMS at 15p each for 365 days) for what we already bought (and paid for upfront) as a lifetime package. There is no minimum term, that wasn't part of the pack.

The terms of the pack were already tested in court during the first attempt to cancel it and were found to mean that until we voluntarily cancelled the contract we had all indeed paid for 5 SMS per day until we left (Orange could not kick us off as the terms of the pack did not allow it, and also did not allow them to change the terms!).

Yes, it looks trivial, but again these aren't huge complaints - EE just wasn't aware of the pack terms and its history, even though they took over Orange and all its liabilities. I would also think there are far fewer Out Here users left than the last time this was raised.

Paying £273.75 per year again for something that we already purchased isn't moneysaving!



Leigh: they have been offering a 150 SMS / month bundle at zero cost for Out Here customers (which is the right number of SMS). They do try to upsell to a contract or one of the PAYG top-up plans but the offer is available. Depends on whether the customer services bod you get knows about it I guess!

mobilejunkie

alexpeck wrote: »

MobileJunkie: If we "thank them and move on" then as Leigh mentioned we would end up paying £273.75 per year (5 SMS at 15p each for 365 days) for what we already bought (and paid for upfront) as a lifetime package. There is no minimum term, that wasn't part of the pack.

The terms of the pack were already tested in court during the first attempt to cancel it and were found to mean that until we voluntarily cancelled the contract we had all indeed paid for 5 SMS per day until we left (Orange could not kick us off as the terms of the pack did not allow it, and also did not allow them to change the terms!).

Yes, it looks trivial, but again these aren't huge complaints - EE just wasn't aware of the pack terms and its history, even though they took over Orange and all its liabilities. I would also think there are far fewer Out Here users left than the last time this was raised.

Paying £273.75 per year again for something that we already purchased isn't moneysaving!



Leigh: they have been offering a 150 SMS / month bundle at zero cost for Out Here customers (which is the right number of SMS). They do try to upsell to a contract or one of the PAYG top-up plans but the offer is available. Depends on whether the customer services bod you get knows about it I guess!

The partner died. Lifetime over. If you want to test EE's liability you can always sue them. That's what I would do IF I had a good case in terms of EE being liable. Otherwise accept and move on.

PHK

mobilejunkie wrote: »

The partner died. Lifetime over. If you want to test EE's liability you can always sue them. That's what I would do IF I had a good case in terms of EE being liable. Otherwise accept and move on.

I agree. In any case like this, the court will use a reasonableness test. I happen to agree with you, it's time to move on. I do have some thoughts:

Orange ceased to exist some time ago.
I've seen posts on other forums from 15 years ago complaining that Out Here had been taken away. There are few people still using it as SMS is now inclusive or very cheap. It's unreasonable to expect a company to maintain its predecessors systems for ever. My view is that the out here purchase gave value whilst it was around and a case would not succeed.
The comparison with paying 15p per message is false. That's the out of bundle rate for one of the most expensive providers. The vast majority of people buy a bundle of calls/text/data that suits them and start from under £5 a month. Very low users will be on a pay and go tariff where texts are 2p.

Personally, I wouldn't bother. It's not worth wasting my time over something that gave good value but has now ended.

A longer term question for people upset by the removal of out here. SMS is slowly being replaced by RCS and by messaging services. We've already seen in the US and other countries the gradual phasing out of SMS message centres (as the number of messages reduces). In the UK, as the number of SMS sent slowly reduces we are seeing less resources allocated. What are you going to do when SMS is eventually switched off?

J_B

PHK wrote: »

Orange ceased to exist some time ago.

'Our Kid' has a couple of OVP/Virgin contracts on a business account
When he called EE a while back, they put him through to 'Orange Business'


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