Claim Form Originating from bwlegal and Britannia parking

avem1

Hi Guys

Been spending the last 2 days reading as much of this forum as possible and see that as a newbie I should post a new thread as I've had a claims form issued.

Received a PCN from Britannia in 2016 for failing to have a pay and display ticket in a retail centre car park.
I did not purchase a ticket as I was unaware there was a charge for the car park due to the poor and inadequately positioned signage in the car park.
When we parked I actually got ouf of the car and looked at a sign in front of us which was nothing to do with fees. I then looked around and could see no signs relating to having to pay.
Upon returning to the car and seeing the PCN we looked even harder for signs and could see none from the position we had parked in. There were other signs in the car park but they were distant and facing the opposite direction from where we parked (which was adjacent to the shops) so that all you could see if you looked hard enough was the blank grey background of one sign.
There was 1 sign that we would have passed but that was outside the car park and on the main rd in to the carpark area, located slap bang between 2 roundabouts so that the driver would have been concentrating on the roads and traffic instead of seeing a sign (which was attached to the roundabout road sign, so inconspicuous in its own right let alone its poor positioning between 2 busy adjacent roundabouts.

I will send off my acknowledgment to the court within the permitted time. The claim form issue date is 19 oct 2018. I've seen the drop box detail of how to do this...putting nothing in the defence box!

I havent come across a defence which seems purely about not seeing any signs so not buying a ticket. I dont expect to be spoon fed but I'd be grateful if anyone could point me in the direction of one or give me some pointers on my defence.

The particulars of claim are:
"The claimants Claim is for the sum of £X being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of a PCN issued on 'Date' at place Y
The PCN relates to (defendants car).
The terms of the PCN allowed the defendant 28 days from the Issue date to pay the PCN, but the defendant failed to do so. Despite demand having been made the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.
The Claim also includes Statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8 per cent per annum a daily rate of 0.02 from 2016 to last week being an amount of £X
The claimant also claims £X contractual costs pursuant to PCN Terms and Conditions."


The total amount is between £200-300.

At the time of PCN, I entered an appeal with Britannia and then with POPLA citing the inadequate signage which were both rejected (wish I'd come on this forum then!).
I then ignored all the debt collectors letters. I read bwlegals first letter when it came in August 18 which I just took to read as another debt collectors letter and subsequently ignored their next 2 letters (including the Letter of Claim).
It was only when the claim form came through the post that I went back and read everything.

Also, during my appeal process Britannia had this in one of their letters "We have identified appellant to be the driver and liable for the parking charge notice. The driver has supplied us with the home address in the appeal letter and we therefore find them liable for the parking charge notice"

I'm determined to take these locusts all the way, so any help is really appreciated!

Many thanks

KeithP

avem1 wrote: »

The claim form issue date is 19 oct 2018.

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th October, you have until Wednesday 7th November to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Having done the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Wednesday 21st November 2018 to file your Defence.

Over three weeks. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

1) Print your Defence.
2) Sign it and date it.
3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

Redx

dont send anything off, login online and do the AOS online, no post required


then draft your proposed draft DEFENCE and post it below, for critique

beamerguy

BWLegal up to their extortion tricks again.

The £x fee explained as a contractual fee is really £60 .. yes ?

The £60 is a fake debt collectors fee which is not allowed

"Also, during my appeal process Britannia had this in one of their letters "We have identified appellant to be the driver and liable for the parking charge notice. The driver has supplied us with the home address in the appeal letter and we therefore find them liable for the parking charge notice"

What a lot of rubbish ..... do they will think that because you appealed with your address that you are the driver ???

They got the same address when they applied for keeper details from the DVLA

DID YOU SAY WHO WAS DRIVING ???

avem1

Wow. instant replies, thanks guys...what a great forum!

When I said I'd send off the acknowledgment I meant I'd be doing this online as per how Redx said and following the drop box instructions on the forum.

Yes to the £60 you mentioned beamerguy. and further to your other question: In my appeal to Britannia there were lots of I's and We's. I did a line saying 'If we had known it was a payment car park, I would have paid", and also mentioned 'my car', but at no point have I said who the driver was.

Redx

so decide if you are using POFA2012 as a keeper DEFENCE, or not using it as a DRIVER defence, then tailor your draft defence accordingly

KeithP

avem1 wrote: »

I did a line saying 'If we had known it was a payment car park, I would have paid", and also mentioned 'my car', but at no point have I said who the driver was.

But you have slipped up in your opening post.

Your sentence starting "There was 1 sign..." could perhaps be better written as:

There was 1 sign that we would have passed but that was outside the car park and on the main rd in to the carpark area, located slap bang between 2 roundabouts so that the driver would have been concentrating on the roads and traffic instead of seeing a sign (which was attached to the roundabout road sign, so inconspicuous in its own right let alone its poor positioning between 2 busy adjacent roundabouts.

Spot the subtle alteration I have made.
Only one word, but it makes a big difference.

Coupon-mad

As you appealed a windscreen PCN, was there a Notice to Keeper at all? If not then they cannot rely on the POFA. If you went through POPLA then the evidence pack will show any NTK, if you can't recall if one arrived.

However if you appealed online you might have chosen 'driver' in a drop down menu?

I havent come across a defence which seems purely about not seeing any signs so not buying a ticket. I dont expect to be spoon fed but I'd be grateful if anyone could point me in the direction of one or give me some pointers on my defence.

Both example defences by the legally qualified poster 'bargepole' that I've linked in the NEWBIES thread as 'concise' examples, are all about unclear signs. I'd use one of bargepole's defences as your base, then add in stuff about the POFA and 'no keeper liability' if they sent no NTK due to being distracted by an appeal.

avem1

Whats the slip up Keith?
And a change to defendant I see, although in that phrase mentioning the driver still does not identify anyone no?
All this legal stuff, being careful with ones words is Alien to me. I just come out and say it how it is normally but learning fast for the purposes of this!

Does anyone know if theres a way of getting hold of what I sent to POPLA as it being an on line form I dont have a record and didnt take screen shots at the time.......such a naive person one is, entrusting an appeals systems and not expecting it to come back to haunt 2 years later!

Redx

specsavers are open tomorrow m8 , 1000 to 1600

both for the slip up and for the BARGEPOLE CONCISE DEFENCES passover

hint , the word begins with a D

these statements need sorting out for this legal case, otherwise you run the risk of dropping yourself right in it

a judge is going to read these words and any self incrimination will be a costly mistake

send POPLA an SAR with the popla ref , also check any evidence pack they sent

KeithP

avem1 wrote: »

...although in that phrase mentioning the driver still does not identify anyone no?

Doesn't it?

[sentence deleted]

"Nothing wrong with that" you may say, and that is true until later in this thread some more identifying information is mistakenly posted.

The sort of mistake that show a picture of the car with the registration number showing.

The PPCs read this forum just waiting for people to trip themselves up and can use your posts against you.