LBC received for 'overstaying' by 18 sec in Hayes High Point Village

parkingproblem_2

Dear all, I would appreciate any help and have read the newbie thread posts (apologies if there are any I've missed that cover this situation). I have now received an LBC from Gl*dstones on behalf of PCM at the notorious Hayes High Point Village.


Summary of event:
The car was parked for free in a bay of the private car park. Sign states '20 min maximum stay' and 'No grace period applies'. The driver parked there to go to a shop and a nearby flat. The driver thought they had only parked for 20 minutes when driving out. A person with a smartphone taking photos of the car was noticed. A parking charge notice (PCN) was later received with access to images of the car. The first and last time-stamped images show the car was stationary in the bay for 20min 18sec apparently.

After the initial PCN, the keeper sent an amended MSE forum template letter of appeal to PCM - saying "I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability. You state that the 'charge' is for: "Parking having exceeded the time limit." I did not see how your 'photographic evidence' proves this."


Then the keeper received a rejection of the appeal, which said "You parked in a manner whereby you agreed to pay a charge. The Parking Attendant recorded that the vehicle was parked exceeding the maximum permitted time."



Then 2 debt collection letters followed, after which this LBC arrived.


The LBC states:
We act on behalf of the Claimant and we have now been instructed to commence legal action against you to recover the
amount due above,as you have failed to settle the debts that are owing,or provide a valid reason for non-payment.We
understand that our client has written to you to request payment but the amounts are still outstanding.

The charge amount includes £60 claimed by our Client for the time spent and resource facilitating the recovery of the
charge. The amount is a pre-determined and nominal contribution to our Client's losses as a direct result of your non
payment.

In the event the outstanding debt is not paid in full, we are instructed to commence legal proceedings. Our Client is
satisfied that it has sufficient evidence to support this claim and, if necessary, will rely on this evidence in Court.
If you believe you have a valid reason for non-payment, you are able to reply pursuant to Paragraph 4 of the Pre-Action
Protocol for Debt Claims under the Civil Procedure Rules 1998 ('the PAP'). A version of the Information Sheet and Reply
Form taken from the PAP can be completed on our website. Before completing the online
Reply Form, you must first create a login, for which you will require your reference (ref removed). Alternatively, you can
request a paper version (see overleaf).

We refer you to Paragraph 2.1(c)of the PAP which obliges the parties to act reasonably and proportionately.
Please pay or reply within 30 days of the date of this letter. Any reply received outside of the 30 day period may not be
considered as legal proceedings are likely to have been issued.
To discuss the matter with us, please call 01565 755088.




Action now:
The keeper intends to acknowledge the LBC and refer the solicitor to para 6 of the pre-action protocol (at the justice.gov.uk site), and also mention that the keeper will seek advice and submit a formal response within 14 days of receipt.

Is this the correct response?

Based on the facts above, is it realistic to expect the claimant would lose in court? Any advice is very welcome!

I wasn't sure if Annex A is now out of date (I don't see it on the justice.gov.uk link above). Also is the claimant correct to refer to the pre-action protocol for debt claims in their letter (this debt claim protocol also does not appear in the pre-action protocol page as a protocol 'currently in force')?

Thank you very much

KeithP

Yes, there hasn't been an 'Annex A' in the Practice Direction for several years - at least three years.

Can you replace that bit with something from one of the sample LBC responses in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?

Redx

the latest PaP was in oct2017 , so they should be conforming to that

I would read recent LBC rebuttals and adapt one and send it (not bothering with their forms)

you should edit out their reference too, no giving out info like that on the tinternet

Fruitcake

As above, follow the guide to court from post 2 of the NEWBIES

Send your AOS but put nothing, not even a full stop in the defence box.

Complain to the landowner if that is an option. The scammers are required to provide a grace period, so saying there isn't one on their signs is a breach of their ATA's COP which is in turn a breach of their KADOE contract with the DVLA.

Complain to the DVLA and your MP about this breach plus the unregulated scam in general.

jara10

Sorry, what's the 'Annex A'? I have the same letter from the same location!

Umkomaas

jara10 wrote: »

Sorry, what's the 'Annex A'? I have the same letter from the same location!

There's no longer one - so a moot point. Try a Google Search - there will be some archive somewhere to enlighten.

there hasn't been an 'Annex A' in the Practice Direction for several years - at least three years.

Redx

I havent managed to work out why "Annex A" has crept into this thread !!


either GLADRAGS are using out of date wording or somebody has been reading old stuff that hasnt applied for years

KeithP

Redx wrote: »

I havent managed to work out why "Annex A" has crept into this thread !!

The OP mentioned it in their opening post - last paragraph.

I too don't know why they mentioned it.

beamerguy

The charge amount includes £60 claimed by our Client for the time spent and resource facilitating the recovery of the
charge. The amount is a pre-determined and nominal contribution to our Client's losses as a direct result of your non
payment.

Assume the debt collector was DRP.

If so. Gladstones are spouting rubbish again

As you ignored the debt collector (DRP) there are no costs
for time spent, resources to recover the debt etc.

There is no pre-determined amount, the £60 is a fake add-on
by DRP.

Here is a clue why this is rubbish

DRP offer a ‘no collection, no fee service

Therefore Gladstones are trying to extort money from you

In your reply to the LBA you can request proof of the £60
which will mean invoices and time sheets

And if they ignore you, then if this goes to court you
will bring this to the attention of the judge

THE £60 SCAM OPERATED BY DRP ?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74439905#Comment_74439905

parkingproblem_2

Thanks all...

Sorry I was looking at The Parking Tickets Board Sticky with a thread linked to it called 'Parking - Letter Before County Court Claim (LBCCC) - Fight back! Guidance Thread' - I just realised it's a few years old. I'll adapt one of the sample responses in that case.

I've removed the reference now!

parkingproblem_2

Dear all,
Please advise if this would be a suitable response to the letter before claim. It is adapted from Daniel san's LBC response and I've tried to keep it brief.

Thanks in advance,


Your Ref: xxxx

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter entitled ‘Letter Before Claim’ and dated 6th October 2018.

Your letter breaches the requirements of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims under the Civil Procedure Rules 1998. It also breaches the requirement of the Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct.

Treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the Protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information and documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. Is your client pursuing me as driver or keeper?
3. Is your client relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012?
4. What the details of the claim are; Where exactly it is claimed the vehicle was parked and for how long it was parked
5. A full statement of account, including details of all interest, administrative charges and other charges included on the outstanding balance of the debt, explaining how they have been calculated.
6. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
8. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. A copy of all of the correspondence between your client and me
11. All images taken of the vehicle that you refer to
12. Enclose a copy of the information sheet and reply form in annex 1 of the Pre-Action Protocol
13. Enclose a Financial Statement form

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully,