county Court Claim Form - VCS Limited parking fine

Coupon-mad

Sheffield is quite good, as they do get the PPC scam and see a lot of these.

But if that's an unreasonably long way for a Director witness to travel, write to the local Judge at Sheffield and do what this person did:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75105384#Comment_75105384

Ask the Sheffield Judge for an Order to transfer the claim to the county court at xxxxxxx.

Reason:
"Witness attending court for the Defendant is from xxxxxxx area; this court is more local than Sheffield. Claimant has no witness and is being represented by a solicitor agent"

Fredhugh

Hi

Did the defendant win this case, update please . Thanks

PrettyKittyKat

Sorry Fredhugh it has been a very hectic few months. Our case was passed from Sheffield to Nottingham, and the court date is 11th April. I have got to deliver all the documents to the other party and court by 14th March. It says that this is the same date that VCS has to pay the trial fee.

I realise I have left it late to sort out our witness statement and get all the documents together. I will be spending tomorrow evening getting it all together, then I can post it next day delivery on Tuesday. I presume I can also email it to ensure it gets to them ontime?

We have received the copy of the witness statement and evidence from VCS. It seems quite comprehensive, I didn't expect it to be so thick! I presume this means they have also paid the fee so the court case will go ahead.

I have just read through VCS's witness statement and evidence, which is written by a paralegal employed with them from January 2019. They go through our defence letter point by point disputing it. The witness statement says that no charge notice was placed on the vehicle and they have never claimed this but rather a 'card' was affixed to the windscreen informing the driver that they 'may' have breached the Terms and Conditions of parking. Apparently this card gives you a unique code to access an online portal to view the alleged breach, the photographic evidence and either appeal or pay the charge. The evidence includes pics and shows something under the windscreen wiper (although it obviously isn't clear what it is). The driver has no recollection of there being any card on the windscreen as obviously something saying you had breached T&Cs and owed money they would have acted on!

Also, now we FINALLY have pictures and this witness statement actually includes the postcode (one of the points we were defending based on as we couldn't locate the address from the limited information) the driver has now realised that they were parked attending a job for the landlord (a housing association) of some of the flats in the area. Would this be something I should bring up in the witness statement? He is going to speak to the landlords tomorrow and ask them about this as if he is attending a job there then he has no option but the park in the car park (no permit requirements were mentioned to him by the landlord). Frustratingly had we been aware of the actual location earlier then would this has been a valid reason to appeal/defend it? On the basis he was acting on instructions of the landlord of properties using that car park to attend to the property?

I have got a few witness statements link on the newbies thread ready to read so I know how to layout it out/what to say. If you think there are any specific ones that may help I would really appreciate a link to this.

Thanks in advance for any help. I am quite nervous about this!

Coupon-mad

I will be spending tomorrow evening getting it all together, then I can post it next day delivery on Tuesday. I presume I can also email it to ensure it gets to them ontime?

Yes. And keep the receipts/costs for posting, if you cannot deliver the court version by hand in person to the court - which is recommended, as it is expensive to post a ring binder/file of evidence, WS, statement from the landlord, etc.

now we FINALLY have pictures and this witness statement actually includes the postcode (one of the points we were defending based on as we couldn't locate the address from the limited information) the driver has now realised that they were parked attending a job for the landlord (a housing association) of some of the flats in the area. Would this be something I should bring up in the witness statement?

Yes definitely.

He is going to speak to the landlords tomorrow and ask them about this as if he is attending a job there then he has no option but the park in the car park (no permit requirements were mentioned to him by the landlord).

Don't just 'speak to them'!

Get the HA to supply a signed & dated letter on their headed notepaper that you can use in evidence to defend this, stating what the driver was doing (giving the DATE and TIME and the VRN of the van involved, to place it and identify it as that day) and that they were an 'authorised and exempt works vehicle'. As such, it should not have been penalised and the vehicle has now been added to a 'white list' of exempt vehicles for the site. and that they DO NOT SUPPORT the litigation against the company!

OR even better if they are the overall landowner of the entire estate - MAKE THEM TELL VCS TO CANCEL THIS PCN/CLAIM!!

Make sure the driver takes a printout of this thread with him so he knows what to get them to write & sign, or just inform them they really *need* to tell VCS to discontinue the claim, if the landlord wants your firm's business.

You want to base your WS on what happened and that the van was not 'unauthorised' at all, and that there is no commercial justification or 'legitimate interest' in pursuing this charge which is unsupported by the landowner (assuming you do mean the overall site landowner, the Housing Association?).

Get that evidence in writing, tomorrow. No chats or phone calls, they don't help.

DO NOT send someone who will take no for an answer. Your firm has no time to waste.

The HA either need to get VCS to discontinue, or they need to pay them off (as it was the HA's fault for putting your driver in that position without adding the van to a white list or giving hi a temporary works permit) or they need to sign & date a comprehensive note using the words I set out above about the parking event ate/time, and etc, and what the authorised driver was doing and about not supporting the litigation and wanting it cancelled.

PrettyKittyKat

Thank you for the comprehensive response Coupon Mad. I'm not sure if the HA is the landowner but VCS included their contract in their pack so I'm going to check the details.

My husband spoke to the HA today before I saw your reply and they said straight away they would put something in writing and have asked what exactly it needs to say - I will ensure your wording is used.

Am I right in thinking that VCS can 'drop' the case up until the day of the court case? (If the HA is able to instruct them to do so). The man my husband spoke with said he is back to back with meetings so won't be able to look into this further until wednesday, which is our deadline for submitting all the information.

Redx

yes , they can "drop it" anytime up to walking into the judges chambers or courtroom

PrettyKittyKat

I am just reading up on PoFA 2012 again as this seems to be the main argument in VCS's WS. They say VCS complies so can chase the keeper.

I just wanted to check if my interpretation of the following is correct...

1) A notice to the driver should be either put on the vehicle or given to the driver and has to say
- Which car the ticket relates to
- What land the car was parked on
- The period the car was parked
- When and how the parking rules were broken
- What the parking charges are for the infringement of the rules, and of the maximum additional costs they may seek to recover, and the date by which those parking charges should be paid
- Any discounts for early payment.
- How to pay and to whom (this must be the person legally entitled to the money – the “Creditor”)
- The date and the time the notice was issued
- How appeals and complaints can be dealt with.
2) A notice to keeper must then be sent not before 28 days but before 56 days after the notice to driver.

Is the 'notice to driver' the PCN?

VCS say they did not put a PCN on the vehicle but rather a 'warning card' which contains only the date and a serial numbers to go on myparkingcharge.co.uk to see all the info and if that isn't responded then they apply for the keeper details after 5 days and send a PCN usually within 14 days. Does this meet to requirement under PoFA 2012? The way I read it the PCN (if that is the notice) must be put on the car or handed to the driver at the time of the contravention?

Also, the letter sent is headed 'Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Notice to Keeper (NTK)' ---- My thinkings is, as they are two different things, what is it? Do you agree?

If it's a PCN then a NTK was never sent as the next letter only said 'Parking charge notice (PCN) Final reminder do not ignore'.

If it's a NTK, as I think the intention is for it to be as the second letter I commented on above says 'A notice to keeper was issued to you' giving the date of the first letter, then this NTK was issued 6 days after the contravention which is in breach of PoFA 2012, isn't it? Does this mean as it does not comply they can not pursue the keeper?

PrettyKittyKat

Coupon-Mad, upon checking our notice of allocation it asks for everything to be sent to the mansfield court as they are managing the case, which happens to be 15 mins from my workplace so I will hand deliver it all on Wednesday. Do I just hand it in at a reception desk? Or do I need to speak to a specific person/get proof it was handed in?

PrettyKittyKat

Sorry for even more questions....

An address/postcode has been stated on the claim form as XXXXXXX car park, Loughborough. When googled this brought back no results. The PCN/NTK from VCS stated XXXXXXXXX car park, Loughborough, LE11 XXX. (I.e. had the addition of a post code which hasn't been declared on the claim form).

The contract provided by VCS with the landowners states XXXXXXXXXX car park, road name, Loughborough (no post code given). The site plan drawing with the contract gives this same address.

When I have searched the postcode on the post office website address finder (I figured that was the most reliable) then the post code returns a different road name to that listed on the contract/site drawing. This road is nearby but isn't shown on the site drawing, so I think it is fair to say isn't part of the private car park. Searching the road name given in the contract returns a different post code. Searching the name of the car park returns no results. I have included print screens of all of this. Therefore there is an inconsistency in the address of the contravention between the PCN/NTK, the claim form and the contract with the landowner.

The road name and site map provided IS where my husbands business worked so the van would have been parked there to attend some of the properties in that area (flats). The housing association isn't the land owner so I'm not sure they will be able to cancel it but I will certainly ask they contact VCS/the land owners.

As the address given on the PCN and NTK isn't actually the address whereby the contravention took place does this mean they are invalid anyway?

Coupon-mad

Is the 'notice to driver' the PCN?

Yes but VCS didn't place a PCN, they placed a 'THIS IS NOT A PCN' envelope.

VCS say they did not put a PCN on the vehicle but rather a 'warning card' which contains only the date and a serial numbers to go on myparkingcharge.co.uk to see all the info and if that isn't responded then they apply for the keeper details after 5 days and send a PCN usually within 14 days. Does this meet to requirement under PoFA 2012?

No. This is covered in the NEWBIES thread already, too much to type here.

Search the NEWBIES thread (CONTROL & F) for 'myparkingcharge.co.uk'

This is also covered on other VCS defence threads, and in the template defence for 'not a CN' cases that is in the NEWBIES thread too. It's all been said before.