I've searched, I've read and I'm still stuck

WelshPoppy

Please don't get mad, I have tried to help myself but I really am not sure what is relevant to me.

On 23/11/17 I parked a courtesy car in Sutton Harbour car park, Plymouth. I paid, luckily by CC.
Some time later I received a PCN from Britannia via the garage - the keeper.
Now, I live in a fairly rural area of Wales, council run pay and display, free shopping centre car parks etc so I am in blissful ignorance of the mess I am about to get myself in to. So, I appeal the charge and after a bit of toing and froing it goes very quiet, I sigh with relief thinking reason has prevailed and in a mass clear out it is possible that the original paperwork was slung out.

This year I return home after a few weeks away to a letter from BW legal dated 28/8/18 saying pay up by 2nd Oct. I finally think to contact my credit card issuer who give me the transaction details. I write to them (headed WITHOUT PREJUDICE) giving them this information and an email from PCC explaining why the payment shows on my statement as Plymouth County Council and confirming that the payment would have been sent to Britannia Parking. I did conclude that if they decided to go to court I would counter claim for my time, phone call, anxiety and stress. (got that last bit from MSE)

I have today received a reply dated 4th October in which they say I did not enter the correct VRM and enclosing a print out I presume from their machine, plus photographs of all machines in the car park (I assume) showing that an £85 PCN may be issued to all vehicle which etc etc including wrong VRM. The £85 is fairly big, the reasons are small. Neither can be seen from the parking space and I can recollect no signs at the entrance to the car park.

However, it looks like they are right. The prefix and numbers entered are for my own vehicle reg not the courtesy car's. However I have paid.

I would like to reply and ask them for photo evidence that a car with my reg WF13, entered the car park at about the same time, and for them to do a quick reconciliation between cars in long enough to warrant a charge and parking paid. The car park was not busy. I can prove that my WF13 was nowhere near the car park.

But, I have a sneak feeling someone is going to say this is not the best way to go about it.

They do say in their letter that they are not the land owner of the site and manage it on behalf of the landowner - can I use that?

It is an individual letter and concludes asking me to "Please contact our office within 14 days of the date of this letter on phone number to discuss repayment". At least they are being polite.

BTW "Balance" is £145.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

onlyfoolsandparking

All seems a bit confusing, so are you saying you paid PCC by mistake and PCC confirm this but parking company aren't interested?


And if that is correct well of course they wont be interested!! in their eyes you owe them money.


And are you now saying you want to refute the parking scammers charge?


Plenty of defence threads on here relating to incorrect/mistyped VRN,s just keep steadily searching and reading.


A bit more clarity and detail will help us help you oh and people don't get mad on here, well not many

beamerguy

Yes, your post does not make sense

Are you saying that Plymouth County Council are using
scammers like Britannia ?????

Umkomaas

I write to them (headed WITHOUT PREJUDICE)

Why did you head it 'Without Prejudice'?

WelshPoppy

Thank you everyone, and sorry my explanation was not clear. I'll start again.

I parked a courtesy car in Harbour car park Plymouth in September 2017.

A PCN was issued via the garage servicing my car. I had no idea I was opening a can of worms by appealing.

However after a while all went quiet and I thought the matter was over.

A year later I receive a letter of claim from bw legal. My credit card issuer give me the transaction number, authorisation code and Merchant details for the payment I made.

The debit on my credit card statement was to Plymouth County Council. I contacted them and this is from their response "I have spoken with the Bank card company 3C who administer the payments on behalf of Britannia Parking, they have advised that they currently provide transactional services for a number of car parks in Plymouth, including some Plymouth City Council and some privately owned. The payment shows as a payment to Plymouth CC as the payment goes through the same Merchant ID, the destination of the payment is then determined and made to the correct car park owner. Therefore this payment would have been sent directly to Britannia parking and they will have a record of your transaction. I have written to the company asking that they change their Merchant ID to ensure that this confusion does not continue."

The land is owned by Plymouth CC and managed by Britannia.

Britannia's letter to me says "We are aware of the terminals named 'Plymouth City Council' - Britannia Parking are not the landowner of this site and manage it on behalf of the landowner."

After a year Britannia advise me that I did not pay for the car I parked. I parked a courtesy car but automatically entered my own car's reg into the ticketless machine.

I'm not sure how best to proceed. I would like them to prove that a car with my car's registration number used the car park at the time I made payment. They have only provided the prefix and first 2 numbers of all of the registration numbers.

Like many others, I have paid for a parking space but Britannia's automatic system can't handle honest mistakes.

Should I reply, go via POPLA or wait and see if they take me to court?

Thanks again.

PS I have look for as many posts as I can where people have put in the wrong reg but only 2 seemed remotely like my case but both used an app on their mobile to pay.

System

go via POPLA

Have they sent you a POPLA code?

KeithP

A year later I receive a letter of claim from bw legal.

You need to respond to the Letter of Claim.

How you might do that is described in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Redx

it is far too late for any appeal and an appeal cannot be made to popla without Britannia providing a popla code

I think you need to leave the council out of this and assume that BRIT manage the car park and BRIT have passed it to B W LEGAL

you need to assume that this is an LBC and write and send an LBC rebuttal, by reading recent B W LEGAL rebuttals and adapting one

The_Deep

Judges often regard wrong VRNs as trifling matters and the Law does not concern itself with trifles.

Vhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis

IMO, if they went to court they might struugle, technology is available to circumvent keyboard erroe, but scamming PPCs prefer not to use it.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.
for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.


kavble

twhitehousescat

if this land is owned by counsil , THEY should have issued a ticket , not the parking Co , the land is non applicable for POFa ,

Redx

bear in mind that some councils have contracts where they lease the land out to a PPC

Excel run the one at Chorlton C*m Hardy which has featured on here many times, but Tameside Council actually own the land (The Square , behind the Precinct)


https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/they-need-stopped-driver-hits-13316843