Civil partnerships: Law to be changed for mixed-sex couples

Rubik

europaea wrote: »

Yes I know, but it's very much a choice what you want to do re: CP - with no expectations and pressure from family and friends*. In fact, no one even expects you to tell them that you entered a CP, it's a simple agreement between the 2.

With a marriage, you need to go through at least a ceremony and your family and friends expect you to tell them (even get approval in many cases) and throw a wedding party etc. I don't think I need to explain what marriage is....

A civil partnership is not a "simple agreement" between a couple - it is a legally binding, state sanctioned union between two people. Unlike a marriage ceremony there are no legal words that need to be said when forming a Civil Partnership. Most ceremonies do however include the following paragraph which can be included at any point in the ceremony.

"I declare that I know not of any legal reason why we may not register as partners in law. I understand that on signing this document we will be forming a civil partnership with each other."

I've attended a few CPs over the years, some have been simple and focused on the couple, others have been bold, loud and full on with hundreds of guests. I disagree with your comment about CPs and no expectations or pressure from family or friends.

A marriage ceremony can be as simple as you wish it to be, as can the party afterwards. Mr Rubik and I had our three children and his mother at our wedding, and went for a meal afterwards - no frills, no fuss, cost less than £500, and we had a fantastic day. People, friends, family, can expect all they like, but a wedding or a CP is about the couple, not anyone else or what others think should or expect to happen.

Rubik

Slinky wrote: »

But it's perfectly possible for a 'mixed' marriage/civil partnership to occur therefore the possibility of 'adultery' can exist.

I didn't say that it couldn't. What I said was : Adultery is not an option as a fact in a CP dissolution, Even if it does occur, it can't be relied on as adultery in the petition.

WillowCat

Slinky wrote: »

Just when you thought there was nothing left to argue over, now 2 sisters want a civil partnership............


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45732851

They could easily solve the problem of inheritance tax on the death of the first sister by changing the ownership of their home to joint tenants instead of tenants in common.

I suspect they are really after having the double inheritance tax relief available to married/civil partnership couples. This wouldn't impact on either sister but would only impact the daughter (assuming she is due to inherit). It would be a slippery slope if you could enter into odd partnerships on your deathbed just to avoid tax.

Mojisola

WillowCat wrote: »

They could easily solve the problem of inheritance tax on the death of the first sister by changing the ownership of their home to joint tenants instead of tenants in common.

This wouldn't avoid IHT.

In this case, the surviving sister would have to sell the family home in order to pay the tax.

northwalesd

europaea wrote: »

With a marriage, you need to go through at least a ceremony and your family and friends expect you to tell them (even get approval in many cases) and throw a wedding party etc. I don't think I need to explain what marriage is...

Maybe in your family, but not everyone's. I've known people who've had the full blown 'do', equally other where the bride and groom have gone to the register office and asked a couple of strangers to be witnesses (and not a peep of protest from anyone).

Again, I know some families who would apply the same 'pressure' on their expectation of the day, whether it's a wedding or a CP.

You can't just generalise for everyone.

And to me, whether you are getting married or entering a CP, it is *your* day, not anyone else's - irrespective of those familial expectations. It's up to the couple whether they bow to them.

Rubik

europaea wrote: »

I wasn't talking about the legal aspect of it at all - I was talking about societal / family perspective here. That is the part that I've always disliked regarding marriages, not the legal and financial protection that it offers.



Yes, but those were for same-sex couples, right? - in times where marriage wasn't available to them... it was a surrogate for marriage. Now that marriage is available to same sex couples, I expect things will change.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just happy that there will be a choice.

Yes, the civil partnership ceremonies were for same sex couples, because currently, it is only same sex couples who can have a CP..... you aren't really making any kind of point here. What things will change?

WillowCat

Mojisola wrote: »

This wouldn't avoid IHT.

In this case, the surviving sister would have to sell the family home in order to pay the tax.

My apologies - I knew that joint tenancy falls to the survivor, I hadn't appreciated that IHT wasn't payable. But now I've thought through it more that does make sense.

Cheeky_Monkey

Slinky wrote: »

Just when you thought there was nothing left to argue over, now 2 sisters want a civil partnership............


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45732851

Some people will do literally anything to get in the papers and avoid paying tax :eek:

They can't do it because CPs quite rightly don't extend to blood relatives. Afterall, nobody wants to condone incest!

Gavin83

NeilCr wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/end-civil-partnership

Thanks. So essentially you do have to go through a cut down divorce procedure, which I expected.

mrschaucer wrote: »

Except note that you can't use adultery as a reason to end a civil partnership.
(Anybody explain why? Is it that adultery by definition is between a man and a woman?)

I expect it's because the legal definition of adultery is when a married person has sex with another person. If you're in the civil partnership you aren't married. In the same way as if a partner in an unmarried couple sleeps with someone else it's just considered cheating. I'm not entirely sure gender comes into it.

europaea wrote: »

Yes I know, but it's very much a choice what you want to do re: CP - with no expectations and pressure from family and friends*. In fact, no one even expects you to tell them that you entered a CP, it's a simple agreement between the 2.

With a marriage, you need to go through at least a ceremony and your family and friends expect you to tell them (even get approval in many cases) and throw a wedding party etc. I don't think I need to explain what marriage is....

So the only real difference is family expectations? If you're that bothered about what your family think what will you do when they expect you to get married, or expect you to have the same 'party' for your civil partnership? I'm not expecting they'll feel any differently just because you've called it a different name. As others have pointed out a wedding can be as lavish or as basic as you wish, as can civil ceremonies.

Rubik

Gavin83 wrote: »

Thanks. So essentially you do have to go through a cut down divorce procedure, which I expected.

It's not a "cut down divorce" - dissolution follows the same procedure as a divorce, other than a Decree Nisi is called a Conditional Order

I expect it's because the legal definition of adultery is when a married person has sex with another person. If you're in the civil partnership you aren't married. In the same way as if a partner in an unmarried couple sleeps with someone else it's just considered cheating. I'm not entirely sure gender comes into it.

Please go back and find the post that clearly explains what adultery is, then revise this idiotic statement.


So the only real difference is family expectations? If you're that bothered about what your family think what will you do when they expect you to get married, or expect you to have the same 'party' for your civil partnership? I'm not expecting they'll feel any differently just because you've called it a different name. As others have pointed out a wedding can be as lavish or as basic as you wish, as can civil ceremonies.

Your last paragraph is absolutely spot on.