Gladstones LBC received for residential parking spot (New World Facilities East Essex LTD)

D_P_Dance

 They also have an "opt-in, opt-out" letter sent to the owners saying if they don't hear from them, its assume that they want the parking patrolled, and a letter to owners introducing the scheme.

If it was not addressed to you how can you be bound by it.  

BlueNine

D_P_Dance said:

 They also have an "opt-in, opt-out" letter sent to the owners saying if they don't hear from them, its assume that they want the parking patrolled, and a letter to owners introducing the scheme.

If it was not addressed to you how can you be bound by it.  

They're saying singage binds me, I'm saying primacy of contract with landlord overrides that, they're saying landlord agreed to their scheme via this letter before I was a tenant so my agreement with him includes their scheme.

NeilCr

BlueNine said:

D_P_Dance said:

 They also have an "opt-in, opt-out" letter sent to the owners saying if they don't hear from them, its assume that they want the parking patrolled, and a letter to owners introducing the scheme.

If it was not addressed to you how can you be bound by it.  

They're saying singage binds me, I'm saying primacy of contract with landlord overrides that, they're saying landlord agreed to their scheme via this letter before I was a tenant so my agreement with him includes their scheme.

Did your landlord tell you about the scheme and that he had "signed up to it"

Castle

BlueNine said:

Hello again all. I've had the court date re-booked for Friday so I'm back scouring for any extra defence points I can find. I haven't had any luck looking elsewhere for something to trump their letter to the landlord saying "we're going to patrol your space unless you say no in 7 days" so thats going to be in the lap of the gods.

"Silence is not acceptance"-Felthouse v Bindley (1863).

D_P_Dance

.. so my agreement with him includes their scheme.

But is it included in your AST?  What precisely does your AST say about parking and parking permits?

Many landlord are absentees and these matters handled by letting agents. 

BlueNine

D_P_Dance said:

But is it included in your AST?  What precisely does your AST say about parking and parking permits?

Many landlord are absentees and these matters handled by letting agents. 

Nothing about having a right to park or having to use a parking permit. Closest thing is "quiet enjoyment"

NeilCr said:

Did your landlord tell you about the scheme and that he had "signed up to it"

No, the permit just came with the tenancy welcome pack. They claim that by accepting it I'm bound by its terms, which I'm disputing with the CRA unfair terms list as being a hidden term and the consumer protection from unfair trading as a misleading omission (thanks to Coupon-Mad). They also say I should've objected before getting the PCN and by not doing so I "abandoned my rights" which sounds plain ridiculous.

Castle said:

"Silence is not acceptance"-Felthouse v Bindley (1863).

That might be exactly what I'm looking for, will it hold up with regards to written contracts?

BlueNine

Another quick question, in the Claimants WS they say "if the Defendant did have a right over the space (which isn't accepted at present), I submit they ought to have notified my Company, rather than accepting the permit. Any rights he did have we therefore abandoned".

Now this sounds like rubbish to me, surely you don't abandon your rights by not mentioning them? (I've already got a point ready re: hidden terms for the permit bit)

nosferatu1001

Yes, of course it holds up
There has to be a meeting of minds 
Thats rubbish. You do not have to tell every tom !!!!!! or harry to get the hell of your land or you lose your rights. Thats a nonsense. 

Castle

nosferatu1001 said:

Yes, of course it holds up
There has to be a meeting of minds 
Thats rubbish. You do not have to tell every tom !!!!!! or harry to get the hell of your land or you lose your rights. Thats a nonsense. 

Agreed...it's the responsibility of the PPC to carry out "due diligence" before they start.

BlueNine

Excellent stuff...so all they have now is the (signed) agreement between them and the management company (which states that they're under the BPA and give details of POPLA on rejection of an appeal. But by the time my PCN comes around they're IPC and didn't give me any details).

No proof of landlord to management company though, so it's not a complete chain?

They're already arguing VCS v HMRC (2013) and Beavis mean they don't have to show a chain from Landowner to them. My argument is that while VCS v HMRC says anyone can make a contract, the chain shows that they can perform it and therefore enforce it. - does that seem right?