We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum. This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are - or become - political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
We're aware that dates on the Forum are not currently showing correctly. Please bear with us while we get this fixed, and see Site feedback for updates.

Grounds for Chargeback Claim?

2»

Comments

  • You don't want to make a chargeback claim, you want to make a Section 75 claim, as the CC company are jointly liable for the misrepresentation.

    If the agent has apologized in writing for things like the missing maid server, and hampers then its pretty clear cut. You should be refunded by the agent or CC company.
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 35,328 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    rr755507 wrote: »
    You don't want to make a chargeback claim, you want to make a Section 75 claim, as the CC company are jointly liable for the misrepresentation.

    If the agent has apologized in writing for things like the missing maid server, and hampers then its pretty clear cut. You should be refunded by the agent or CC company.
    Assuming OP paid EC Villas, Section 75 won't apply as the agent is acting as an intermediary between the customer and the actual supplier (the villa owner), thereby breaking the debtor-creditor-supplier chain needed for a successful s75 claim....
  • Looks like a Chargeback claim is the only option then.

    I always have to say that I've been away from credit card disputes for 14 years now and things will have changed but if you can clearly demonstrate that the service you paid for included X, Y and Z but that you didn't get those things there should be a right of Chargeback for either 'non-receipt of services' or 'not-as-described'.

    Your problems will be in quantifying the things that were missing/mis-described because that is how the Chargeback works (used to work). The other complication is that you only paid 50% by card, so your card issuer would probably only pay out 50% of whatever you claim - assuming they accept your case at all. You will also need to provide evidence of your attempts to resolve the issue with the retailer/agent.

    If it were me, I'd be pushing quite hard at my card issuer to at least try something for me.
  • eskbanker wrote: »
    Assuming OP paid EC Villas, Section 75 won't apply as the agent is acting as an intermediary between the customer and the actual supplier (the villa owner), thereby breaking the debtor-creditor-supplier chain needed for a successful s75 claim....

    I was (most likely incorrectly) assuming the maid and hamper were supplied by the EC Villas.
  • Looks like a Chargeback claim is the only option then.

    I always have to say that I've been away from credit card disputes for 14 years now and things will have changed but if you can clearly demonstrate that the service you paid for included X, Y and Z but that you didn't get those things there should be a right of Chargeback for either 'non-receipt of services' or 'not-as-described'.

    Your problems will be in quantifying the things that were missing/mis-described because that is how the Chargeback works (used to work). The other complication is that you only paid 50% by card, so your card issuer would probably only pay out 50% of whatever you claim - assuming they accept your case at all. You will also need to provide evidence of your attempts to resolve the issue with the retailer/agent.

    If it were me, I'd be pushing quite hard at my card issuer to at least try something for me.

    Did chargebacks like this work back then? I very much doubt it.

    I can assure you there is no chargeback for this now.
  • Chino
    Chino Posts: 2,031 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I can assure you there is no chargeback for this now.
    Some documentary evidence of this would serve forum members far better than your assurance.
  • Did chargebacks like this work back then? I very much doubt it.

    I can assure you there is no chargeback for this now.

    What makes you so sceptical about a Chargeback working that way back in great-granddad's day? It's a shame we can't send you back in time because then you'd know whether your doubt was misplaced or not.

    You also need to understand the amount of ignorance there is out there in Chargeback land - reading some of the posts on this forum where customers have had their claims rejected should make you aware of that. A well constructed case often wins out if the recipient's knowledge is not up to scratch.

    You did have to be very careful about quantifying the value of the service not received, though.

    So, to bring my knowledge up to date can you 100% confirm that there is no longer a Chargeback right for non-receipt of services/services not-as-described whereby the value of the service not received/as described can be recovered, and is there a difference between Visa and MasterCard rules?

    If I paid for 12 airline seats but the airline could only provide 10 when I turned up, is there no Chargeback right? If I pay a hotel in advance for 12 rooms and only 10 are available on arrival am I stuck? If I pay for B&B and evening meal and then find I have to pay for my meals again when I get there, do I have no Chargeback right? If I pay for a luxury villa with a swimming pool, maid service, airport transfers, inclusive meals at a nearby restaurant etc but do not get them, am I now stuck?

    I say this in all seriousness because I am aware that (of old) many retailers did get quite annoyed that their CC providers were getting involved in disputes that they felt lay between them and their customer. Has that lobby caused a shift in Chargeback rules? I very much doubt it.
  • What makes you so sceptical about a Chargeback working that way back in great-granddad's day? It's a shame we can't send you back in time because then you'd know whether your doubt was misplaced or not.


    It was a genuine question as I have no experience of a successful chargeback for a similar situation as outlined in the OP, so wondered if you had? My experience tells me these claims don't get off the ground as I will go on to explain, although obviously disputes can vary and each should be taken on its own merits and facts.
    So, to bring my knowledge up to date can you 100% confirm that there is no longer a Chargeback right for non-receipt of services/services not-as-described whereby the value of the service not received/as described can be recovered, and is there a difference between Visa and MasterCard rules?


    Both Visa and MasterCard still offer chargebacks for services not received and services not as described. They work in much the same way really, a few minor differences. I just don't think they are applicable for these circumstances.
    If I paid for 12 airline seats but the airline could only provide 10 when I turned up, is there no Chargeback right? If I pay a hotel in advance for 12 rooms and only 10 are available on arrival am I stuck? If I pay for B&B and evening meal and then find I have to pay for my meals again when I get there, do I have no Chargeback right? If I pay for a luxury villa with a swimming pool, maid service, airport transfers, inclusive meals at a nearby restaurant etc but do not get them, am I now stuck?


    12 airline seats but only get 10 - yes
    12 hotel rooms but only get 10 - yes

    You would have an invoice/receipt for these services and it would be down to the merchant to prove the 12 seats/rooms were available and not just the 10 you had claimed to receive.

    Paying for evening meal twice - probably, if you could evidence that the mail had been paid for twice. In theory though, yes this could be a chargeback.

    These are very cut and dried. The problem for the OP boils down to what he really paid for, which on the face of things is a Villa for "X" number of days for 12 people, and I would argue that is what he received. He has listed a number of issues with the overall service:


    2 had to sleep on a bed in a hallway
    No Storage
    Noisy Fridge
    No bathroom
    Dirty Pool
    Wi-Fi only worked in living room
    No welcome basket and luxuries
    Dangerous kettle
    No Kitchen Bin
    Slippery flooring
    Missing items
    Insufficient items


    Of these 12 issues:


    Are any on the invoice?
    Do any of them have a cost to associate to the chargeback if one was done?
    Can the faults be proven?


    Almost all of the issues listed can be discounted when it comes to a chargeback for the reasons above. Clearly the OP and those who stayed in the villa had a poor service and things didn't work as they should have, but the cost cant be quantified and you don't get all your money back due to a kettle not working. Its more a compensation claim against the merchant.


    If there was anything to hang a chargeback on it would probably be the number of guests the villa was supposed to sleep or how many rooms were advertised/listed, as it appears the OP wasn't expecting anyone to sleep in a hallway. Again this would depend on the invoice and the villa's description. And even if it was listed at say 6 bedrooms when there should be 5, it could be argued the guests accepted the bed in the hallway and so accepted the service even though it differed from what they originally paid for. So why would they be due a refund via chargeback?
    I say this in all seriousness because I am aware that (of old) many retailers did get quite annoyed that their CC providers were getting involved in disputes that they felt lay between them and their customer. Has that lobby caused a shift in Chargeback rules? I very much doubt it.



    I'm not sure there has been a shift in the rules to be honest.
  • Thanks for your views and information. Eco-warrior.

    I still see no reason not to attempt to quantify the missing/mis-described elements and to attempt a chargeback. What is there to lose for the customer? I accept the issuer will have to stump up the 'costs' of processing the chargeback.

    On the subject of accepting the service as it was, it is not really reasonable to expect a party of holiday makers to turn up and then say, 'this isn't what we paid for, let's go elsewhere' because that would cost double and they'd still have no right of redress from a card issuer not prepared to at least try to help them.
  • Hey Terry

    Yeah I suppose there is nothing to lose I just know there is no chance of any success via chargeback. I feel for the OP and I would be really annoyed if it happened to me. But they asked for advice/info and I gave an honest assessment.


    Situations like this really favour the supplier of the service and not the customer. Some situations are the opposite.

    I’d be on twitter, Facebook etc trying to humiliate them into some sort of compensation as I believe that’s the only route for some redress.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 348.3K Banking & Borrowing
  • 252.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 452.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 240.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 617.2K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 175.7K Life & Family
  • 254.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.