Invstigation of an allegation

Comms69

farmerboy wrote: »

Please explain to me how many times you have to show someone how to do something? This isn't just me training these people, we have an equal number of trainees to experienced staff and they work with different ones regularly. The issue in question is something that is learnt in basic training and told in the safety brief at the start of each shift. This is a 3rd year trainee who is still getting the basics wrong after being shown and told numerous times by numerous people. And before you ask why is he still employed, the co are scared to lay him and others off due to being taken to the cleaners by 2 previous trainees over equal pay and conditions, because they screwed up when they employed them.


As to why I keep posting, well its to wind up people like yourself who work in the 'oh so perfect politically correct office' where no doubt everything is rosy from 9-5 but I bet there's some back stabbing going off outside of that. At least in our industry people say what they think to your face, you may not like it but at least you know where you stand.

You’re an idiot; your company are clowns.

Ozzuk

Have you considered why he was failing in the role? It might help you with this situation in the future. Work out what is the acceptable standard for the role and look at why he wasn't meeting it. Could be lack of abilitiy which means forcing him to do things will just cause stress/loss of confidence so in that scenario you should look at moving him to a new role. Or could be a training issue.

Or it could be laziness/lack of willingness to try in which case you look at improvement plans and ultimately disciplinary action.

Or it could be external factors - home life, temporary stressors impacting work.

Shouting at someone is not acceptable - if it is the norm in your industry then be a beacon of change. Managing people properly will help you get the most out of people, which means more productivity, or a worst case gives you a proper method for dealing with poor performers.

A little late for your current issue, but might want to think about this - maybe even raise the need for management/supervisory training as part of the investigation.

sangie595

Comms69 wrote: »

You’re an idiot; your company are clowns.

Brilliant summary. I just can't imagine why this company have been taken to the cleaners at a tribunal in the past. But it does prove that some employers and managers never learn....

ohreally

Ozzuk wrote: »

Shouting at someone is not acceptable - if it is the norm in your industry then be a beacon of change. Managing people properly will help you get the most out of people, which means more productivity, or a worst case gives you a proper method for dealing with poor performers.

A little late for your current issue, but might want to think about this - maybe even raise the need for management/supervisory training as part of the investigation.

Absolutely this. How would you like me to bawl at you in the workplace. Don't justify your part in this by past behaviour - learned behaviour like this is not on.

If there was imminent danger, shut down the process and them calmly take the individual aside and talk to them.

seatbeltnoob

if OP was put in so much danger due to the previous co-worker, why on Earth did he/she not complain to the employer so they could be fired and have justifiable reason for doing so and not get sued.

If a worker was doing something completely dangerous like working on a hallway ceiling with hand tools without blocking off the hallway as a hazard but letting people walk underneath I would complain about the colleague to the bosses. Why just shout at them and brush it under the carpet.

This reeks of BS to me, putting fault and blame on the other person after the fact.

The bosses will want to know why such dangerous situation was no reported to them earlier. You lose either way. :rotfl:

farmerboy

seatbeltnoob wrote: »

if OP was put in so much danger due to the previous co-worker, why on Earth did he/she not complain to the employer so they could be fired and have justifiable reason for doing so and not get sued.

If a worker was doing something completely dangerous like working on a hallway ceiling with hand tools without blocking off the hallway as a hazard but letting people walk underneath I would complain about the colleague to the bosses. Why just shout at them and brush it under the carpet.

This reeks of BS to me, putting fault and blame on the other person after the fact.

The bosses will want to know why such dangerous situation was no reported to them earlier. You lose either way. :rotfl:

Just for you, the incident in question regards the use of a cherry picker and him not informing me of his intentions to move the basket as I was carrying out the work, this could have lead to injury, luckily it didn't but a row ensued because he didn't follow the correct procedure, i.e inform me of his intention to move it. This wasn't the first time we had had this discussion either thus it getting heated, but this is part of training that can't be replicated in classroom



Now we don't report every little incident as it would take more time to do the report than do the work, and how do they learn. Going back for retraining on a cherry picker wouldn't help as its not in a work situation where they work with someone else. We see these as part of the on going training of staff. Same as with the work we do, classroom training is all well and good but it you cannot replicate the time constraints, weather factors and full size job that we do. The majority of learning comes from on the job tuition. Management know we don't report every little thing and the reasons why they are not reported, they are quite happy with the systems in place.



This member of staff has now left the company, and the investigation is still on going, not sure why as only myself and the ex staff member were asked for statements as we were the only ones there.


From speaking to our union rep, and a more senior staff member off the record I'm expecting a verbal warning. Lesson has been learnt, and some things that will be mitigating factors for this have been changed. This will not happen again as I'm not putting myself in that kind of situation again. Part of which is me not speaking up when trainees are not up to the correct standard. I have since found out that this trainee was on his last warning regarding his work and assessment scores (we are not involved in this part of the job only the supervisor and manager), and had been moved to our team because of issues with a member of another team (once again we're not told as we thought it was just the usual movement of trainees around the different work)



I also realise that the workplace is a totally different animal now, and as such I am careful who I am placed to work with. Management have been informed of 4 of our 8 trainees that I will no longer work with, mainly because of their lax attitude to work and learning, the other 4 I work with great and will continue to. Future trainees will get a chance, but rather than go down the previous routes that have worked before, I'll now refuse to work with them than put myself in this situation again.

Undervalued

farmerboy wrote: »

I also realise that the workplace is a totally different animal now, and as such I am careful who I am placed to work with. Management have been informed of 4 of our 8 trainees that I will no longer work with, mainly because of their lax attitude to work and learning, the other 4 I work with great and will continue to. Future trainees will get a chance, but rather than go down the previous routes that have worked before, I'll now refuse to work with them than put myself in this situation again.

So what are you going to do if or when the management instruct you to work with them? In most cases that would be a reasonable management instruction and you could be disciplined if you refuse and potentially dismissed if you persist!

If you have valid concerns about these people you should report them to your superiors but it is not up to you to dictate who you will or won't work with.

elsien

Words fail me.
So you refuse to work with trainees who aren't up to scratch but will happily send them off to work with other people.
And instead of reporting/doing something professional about it when people show dangerous work practices, you yell at them then let them carry on for three years thus removing the evidence for them to be performance managed out.
This is really nothing to do with classroom vs workplace, just lazy management, poor work systems and claims waiting to happen.

farmerboy

Glad you all report every little thing to your managers, bet they all love it. The 4 who I won't work with are working with another part of the business for now, but are not likely to progress out of their trainee status. There are ways that we 'performance manage' people out but they are not dependent on reporting every little thing.



Funnily enough, our management are fine with me not wanting to work with them, same as they are for any of us to say who we will or won't work with. I'm not the only one refusing to work with them, think there's 3 of us out of a senior team of 15. This isn't management pandering to us, just good business sense on their part as they understand the dynamic of each main team and the time criticalness of the work we do, plus the trust each member of the team has to have in each other.


Oh and by the way, I'm not the only one who yells, the majority of the company yells. May not be the done thing but it works for the company. I'm just the first to be investigated over it, seems I may not be the last.

sangie595

"Lesson has been learnt". Regrettably, you have learnt the wrong lesson.